AUS high winds
03-09-2025 | 01:48 AM
#51
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 181
Likes: 45
I've never had any pushback when asking for anything at Delta. One time ATL was going in and out of low visibility all morning while we were at the outstation. I called to have some extra fuel and the dispatcher said he was seeing flights getting in without issues and in his mind it wasn't necessary. All it took was saying that i saw his point but in my experience would prefer the extra fuel, and the argument ended there. When we called for taxi it had gone down to CAT III and we were hit with a 45 min flow time. Got an ACARS from dispatch saying "good thing you added that fuel". Same thing with changing alternates or adding an alternate when the forecast is right at the limit of needing one. At most I've gotten their reasoning for planning it that way, but never any pushback when I insisted on my request.
03-09-2025 | 03:07 AM
#52
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 2
From: Hates Commuting
“Never get into an argument you’ve already won” is one of my favorite Crusty Delta Captain-isms I’ve picked up along the way.
Best story on topic that I’ve heard—possibly apocryphal, but don’t care:
Captain: We’ll need X,000 pounds more fuel due to _______ , please.
Dispatch: Can’t / won’t do that because <reasons>.
C; I understand & even concur with those reasons, however, I’ve determined that we’ll need those X,000 pounds for a safety margin.
D: Sorry, Captain—unable.
C: OK, there are two ways we can resolve this. One, do it my way & you give me the gas….
D: <wait>
D: <silence stretches>
D: <tick tick tick tick….>
D: OK, what’s the other way?
C: Well, that will be between you & whover you find to replace me—because I’m not going without the gas.
D: Amending your release now, Captain….
Best story on topic that I’ve heard—possibly apocryphal, but don’t care:
Captain: We’ll need X,000 pounds more fuel due to _______ , please.
Dispatch: Can’t / won’t do that because <reasons>.
C; I understand & even concur with those reasons, however, I’ve determined that we’ll need those X,000 pounds for a safety margin.
D: Sorry, Captain—unable.
C: OK, there are two ways we can resolve this. One, do it my way & you give me the gas….
D: <wait>
D: <silence stretches>
D: <tick tick tick tick….>
D: OK, what’s the other way?
C: Well, that will be between you & whover you find to replace me—because I’m not going without the gas.
D: Amending your release now, Captain….
03-09-2025 | 05:36 AM
#53
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,383
Likes: 121
I think the OCC is incentivized to keep things moving bc picking up the pieces of a broken operation is incredibly difficult.
03-09-2025 | 05:43 AM
#54
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,383
Likes: 121
In my experience the OCC is not stopping anything until local authorities close an airport.
This is why it is so important to understand that CAs must have the confidence to make the tough decision to say NO every now and then when warranted. Figure out a diff plan. We have 17,000 pilots with diff internal risk assessment skills and actual skills. The airline screams from the clouds to stop the op for safety and will have your back on safety calls. So FFS don’t be afraid to use it!
A great friend once said, “just because a flight arrives at the gate, doesn’t mean it was done safely”.
03-09-2025 | 05:51 AM
#55
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,872
Likes: 189
I can tell you with certainty that Delta will dispatch and expect you to operate in excess of their recommended Xwind limits. They generally won't push you beyond the actual limits. Why they have the recommended limits I don't know. I asked them to remove them once and did not even get a answer. I did get a answer to what recommended means and was told that unless a greater safety issue is involved they should be observed. That means no operations in the fall in places like Paris for days at a time when you get heavy rains and winds 20 to 30 knots out of the south. If you point that out to dispatch they will tell you it's just a recommendation but not actually used.
03-09-2025 | 06:34 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 12,484
Likes: 1,060
I can tell you with certainty that Delta will dispatch and expect you to operate in excess of their recommended Xwind limits. They generally won't push you beyond the actual limits. Why they have the recommended limits I don't know. I asked them to remove them once and did not even get a answer. I did get a answer to what recommended means and was told that unless a greater safety issue is involved they should be observed. That means no operations in the fall in places like Paris for days at a time when you get heavy rains and winds 20 to 30 knots out of the south. If you point that out to dispatch they will tell you it's just a recommendation but not actually used.
03-09-2025 | 07:03 AM
#57
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,376
Likes: 57
I can tell you with certainty that Delta will dispatch and expect you to operate in excess of their recommended Xwind limits. They generally won't push you beyond the actual limits. Why they have the recommended limits I don't know. I asked them to remove them once and did not even get a answer. I did get a answer to what recommended means and was told that unless a greater safety issue is involved they should be observed. That means no operations in the fall in places like Paris for days at a time when you get heavy rains and winds 20 to 30 knots out of the south. If you point that out to dispatch they will tell you it's just a recommendation but not actually used.
03-09-2025 | 07:59 AM
#58
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,438
Likes: 438
Like most of what’s in the book, it’s there to protect the company, not us. If you have an accident/incident where the recommended xwinds were exceeded, you can bet your a$$ that you will feel mighty lonely at the end of the table when every attorney from the FAA, NTSB, and company points at your lack of judgement.
This! I've always told my younger FO's to treat these "recomendations" as a limit. Like everything else, have a [good] reason for everything you do and be able to explain it at the table.
03-09-2025 | 08:52 AM
#59
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,248
Likes: 707
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
I've never had any pushback when asking for anything at Delta. One time ATL was going in and out of low visibility all morning while we were at the outstation. I called to have some extra fuel and the dispatcher said he was seeing flights getting in without issues and in his mind it wasn't necessary. All it took was saying that i saw his point but in my experience would prefer the extra fuel, and the argument ended there. When we called for taxi it had gone down to CAT III and we were hit with a 45 min flow time. Got an ACARS from dispatch saying "good thing you added that fuel". Same thing with changing alternates or adding an alternate when the forecast is right at the limit of needing one. At most I've gotten their reasoning for planning it that way, but never any pushback when I insisted on my request.
03-09-2025 | 09:08 AM
#60
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,248
Likes: 707
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
"I requested extra fuel for deice the other day and was told they can't because we were payload optimised."
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