Have there been any more updates on the future of the 717? Last I heard in the podcast, it was slowly going to be phased out in 2028 thru 2030. However, seeing that they are not backfilling in ATL or DTW has me wondering. Seemed like the norm for the past few years was new hires being offered the 717. But now it doesn't seem like that's going to be the case.

 

We have no choice but to keep the 717 in service until we can secure a replacement. Currently, our plan remains unchanged; however, with the 30-day wing spar inspections and ongoing maintenance issues, I wouldn't be surprised if we see an amendment to the plan. Additionally, the FAA is funding a significant portion of the LPV upgrade as a test bed for 121 operators, so I don't foresee the aircraft going away isntantly, but stranger things have happened!

 

We need a replacement for that market size and there isn’t one we can or are willing to get. The “Airbus” (lol) 220’s have serious delivery issues and we wouldn’t take MAX7’s or 319NEO’s if they were free because they’re not the largest frame offered for a type. Theoretical CASM is viewed as more important than segment cost and markets will be abandoned before a smaller version/higher CASM plane is put on it. “Airbus” better get us some more 223’s because as soon as they make the 225 we’ll likely stop getting the 3’s.

 

Has the E190 E2 ever been considered as a replacement? I'd assume their order book is way less backed up than Boeing or Airbus, even though they don't even offer a true replacement for the 717.

 

Was there an announcement I missed? 225? I thought they chose not to cannibalize the existing 320 family market with an adopted program.

 

I just meant theoretically. If they make the 5 (and they probably will eventually just not as soon as originally planned) then we would want that because all bigger versions have better on paper CASM.

I agree AB views the 5 as competing with the 19 and 20. However those are rapidly becoming the minority on their order book so they will likely make the 225 at some point to get more sales. JMHO but the over emphasis on paper theory CASM over all else still stands.

Markets that carry cheaper CASM seats that you can’t sell hurts your RASM, drives up your segment cost and hinders market growth. We will soon have an artificial self induced gap from 76 to 130ish seats with the 220’s that we can get. Any opportunities beyond that limited number and it’s a 76-160 seat gap and even that is rapidly aging 738 and 320 frames. Once they start to cycle out (already are) it’s a 76-190ish gap. That over reliance on paper CASM will become negative network pressure. Cheap seats you can’t sell are costly seats. Not every market is an RJ or a 321/MAX9/10.

 

There were 25 DTW 717 FO vacancies posted on the Dec AE, and all went unbid. They will be offered to Nah’s in Jan, I would expect.

 

I agree with the "stretch it and they will come" theory however there are additional complications. An adopted airframe where certification was done by another engineering house and recertification would require a whole new engineering work up in a family of airframes not organic to the company is a big task. They have kicked that can for several years now and I don't see the motivation, yet.

I'd welcome it as a driver for pay in the category especially with the 717 leaving. I see it more as an IF rather than a WHEN.

 

When is LPV coming? Last year, they said we'd have them by summer of 25 or so. Last I heard it's still in the works, but it seems that the can keeps getting kicked.

 

it’s important to recognize the progress made so far, you know, like our paycheck project thing they gave up on