But then we'd all complain there is no OT!

 

Why bother picking up trips at 0300 either way even if it is yours? I stopped doing that ages ago. Plenty of daylight hour GSs to answer and especially IAs.

There are numerous posts on here and other boards elaborating on auto accept as a method of slowing the process down for no other reason. I'm not digging to find them. You can search if you want. It was mostly the angry minority detailing it.

 

You need to reread what I wrote. You completely are talking about something else.

I support and demand that penalties and remedies be a part of our labor agreement with management.

I am saying that a contracts benefits are derived from the actual negotiated benefits contained, NOT from remedies/payments when those benefits are violated. Yes those should exist for violations, but we don’t want any violations.

Example: make everything on reserve CNO, and trade that for a very high value item. No pilot actually cares if a human calls them or a robot calls them. SOME people will wrongly see this as a concession because when scheduling screws this up, they get their trip dropped and QOL improved as a remedy. Giving up the need for that remedy is not a concession. We can get big gains for virtually no change from the pilots POV.

The people with a gravy train from penalty payments will argue that the loss of those penalties is a concession. That is NOT true, and is a drag on our pilot group.

However, I DO say that there must be penalties for when violations do occur.

 

These are your words.

"Losing batch size penalties, 23M7 payments, or anything else of the sort, is NOT a concession."

They are concessions because the company regularly chooses to go off script. These are needed to get them back on script. Like I said before, batch sizes could have been a boon for us not as a penalty but eventually as leverage for pay or sensible QOL provisions like not waking an entire category in the middle of the night. Instead we gave it away. I'm no longer in the giving mood. 23M7 is exactly the same kind of thing, it drives up the cost of alternate compliance which keeps management from making things up as they go like they have in the past. The penalties are necessary, they are only paid when the company does things outside our normal agreement, or as you put it derived from the actual negotiations.

You seem to have this fantastical view that they will just comply with the PWA this time if we just remove the guardrails. No, they will and have always disregarded the PWA when it suits them. If they comply there are no penalties. The choice is theirs.

 

I don’t know how you conclude that from what I’m saying. The company will always violate. And there should always be penalties.

Hypothetical examples of what I’m trying to say:

1) every part of notification is automated and no human scheduler required, in exchange for first class deadheads

(trading humans for robots is not a concession, because who cares what calls you)

2) overhaul the trip coverage process in such a way that vastly reduces the necessity to skip pilots and pay them 23M7 ( a company want), and in exchange we get fully paid for high-quality health insurance. (the new system works such that the sequence is followed and seniority is honored all the time, but some senior pilots will lose money by losing 23M7 payments. This is not a concession because only the *remedy* for that old scenario is lost).



Don’t nitpick the specifics of my hypotheticals as they were just for illustration purposes. I understand they are oversimplified.

I am arguing that it is a BIG problem when people view the loss of *those* penalties as concessionary. Their personal gravy train is over, but that is not a contractual concession. The people who label such things as concessions will be an anchor on this group.

Nowhere do I say or imply that the company always follows the contract, or that penalties and guardrails aren’t appropriate. NOBODY thinks that way.

 

1) you know they will screw that up too. I've gotten robo calls when I'm not contactable and not gotten them when they should have. They don't work. But to be fair, the humans don't do it any better. They can't seem to figure out how to time them with days off, training, rest etc. I would bet that only leads to more interrupted rest.

2) they can do everything you want right now they just have to move the premium out further which benefits everyone. Instead of waiting until 8 hours to report start making trips green and silver 1-2 weeks out. The saved 23M7 money will fund the additional premium. More GS & SLV with some VAS further out so people can plan fixes everything.


Underlying all of this is the fact that nothing will work until we staff for a stable operation. Do that and every issue disappears. These are company choices.

 

You keep saying this but it does nothing to fix last minute call outs getting bogged down by the current shenanigans. Which is where MOST of this problem is.
I don’t know the answer, but I’m also not a rep or on the NC.

 

It actually does because when there's 0 open time because it was all picked up as premium there's nothing to cover for schedulers and people eager to take slips. Cover everything well ahead of the 23M7 window and farming doesn't matter. I know it's no guarantee but the behavioral consequences of having 4 SLV trips means you are full of premium pay.

 

I don’t disagree with what you write.

I am just saying that if we hypothetically trade using CNO for all reserve assignments in exchange for positive space commuting, do NOT say that that’s a concession because now you can’t exploit it when they screw that up. If they screw up the new system with CNO, then exploit away and get all the remedies you are entitled to.

 

So in your example we take from RES and give to commuters. I know it will never be a tit for tat trade in section 6. The fear is the people giving will not receive. CNO is an easy one but 23M7 and batch sizes, the real meat of your comment, removes penalties as guardrails for what?