A possible solution?
#1
Thread Starter
Roll’n Thunder
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,179
Likes: 594
From: Pilot
So I think everyone is in agreement that the trip coverage process is broken. The current usage of auto accept bogs down the process as it works 12 minutes per pilot though all the AA on each step of coverage. Obviously the company doesn’t like this as it leads to increased costs (23m7). But one main reason that pilots started using AA in the first place was because we were getting so many nuisance calls from ARCOS when a pilot was so far down the roster that they had no legitimate shot at the award. The one basic fix I’ve seen thrown around a lot is to just eliminate AA in its entirety. But while that solves the company’s speed problem it just brings back the flood of nuisance calls for pilots.
So, today I had a thought for a possible solution (inside section 6 negotiations): what if we got rid of AA but at the same time brought back batch sizes?
Ever since ARCOS rolled out, AA was always an option as everything was always a 2-step process. First the offer window then the acknowledgement window. Batch sizes reduced or eliminated the need for pilots to use AA since on any call out a pilot was at least in a much smaller pool and had a much higher chance of actually landing the trip. But what if we eliminated the 2-step process (like we already have for QS) but pair that with smaller batches? So let’s say we set it at a batch size of 15, and bump the window time up to 15 minutes to allow people more time to make a decisions, check commute options, etc. But just like QS, if you raise your hand in that window and are the senior pilot to do so when the window closes then you are obligated to fly the award. If no one in the batch raises their hand then ARCOS just calls the next 15 pilots in the next batch. What actual batch sizes to use would be something for the union and company to decide on.
So in that example you could work through 60 pilots in an hour, whereas right now if every AA pilot lets the full 12 minutes lapse you can only go through 5/hour. So trip coverage would move much faster than it is currently while not going full-tilt toward the blast-everyone-at-once solution if we simply just dumped AA. In this setup QS would still be available as an emergency step of coverage if report time was closing in, along with the required 23m7 payment to the skipped pilot.
I feel like this setup moves reasonably towards the company’s goal of faster trip coverage without just selling the farm and blasting every single pilot every single step every single time. Under this system a pilot getting an ARCOS call knows they have a reasonable chance of getting the award.
And lastly, I am only suggesting this as a solution inside of section 6 negotiations, still using our leverage of the current TC process to get a deal done and any potential cost savings rolled into other gains for our contract.
So, today I had a thought for a possible solution (inside section 6 negotiations): what if we got rid of AA but at the same time brought back batch sizes?
Ever since ARCOS rolled out, AA was always an option as everything was always a 2-step process. First the offer window then the acknowledgement window. Batch sizes reduced or eliminated the need for pilots to use AA since on any call out a pilot was at least in a much smaller pool and had a much higher chance of actually landing the trip. But what if we eliminated the 2-step process (like we already have for QS) but pair that with smaller batches? So let’s say we set it at a batch size of 15, and bump the window time up to 15 minutes to allow people more time to make a decisions, check commute options, etc. But just like QS, if you raise your hand in that window and are the senior pilot to do so when the window closes then you are obligated to fly the award. If no one in the batch raises their hand then ARCOS just calls the next 15 pilots in the next batch. What actual batch sizes to use would be something for the union and company to decide on.
So in that example you could work through 60 pilots in an hour, whereas right now if every AA pilot lets the full 12 minutes lapse you can only go through 5/hour. So trip coverage would move much faster than it is currently while not going full-tilt toward the blast-everyone-at-once solution if we simply just dumped AA. In this setup QS would still be available as an emergency step of coverage if report time was closing in, along with the required 23m7 payment to the skipped pilot.
I feel like this setup moves reasonably towards the company’s goal of faster trip coverage without just selling the farm and blasting every single pilot every single step every single time. Under this system a pilot getting an ARCOS call knows they have a reasonable chance of getting the award.
And lastly, I am only suggesting this as a solution inside of section 6 negotiations, still using our leverage of the current TC process to get a deal done and any potential cost savings rolled into other gains for our contract.
#2
So I think everyone is in agreement that the trip coverage process is broken. The current usage of auto accept bogs down the process as it works 12 minutes per pilot though all the AA on each step of coverage. Obviously the company doesn’t like this as it leads to increased costs (23m7). But one main reason that pilots started using AA in the first place was because we were getting so many nuisance calls from ARCOS when a pilot was so far down the roster that they had no legitimate shot at the award. The one basic fix I’ve seen thrown around a lot is to just eliminate AA in its entirety. But while that solves the company’s speed problem it just brings back the flood of nuisance calls for pilots.
So, today I had a thought for a possible solution (inside section 6 negotiations): what if we got rid of AA but at the same time brought back batch sizes?
Ever since ARCOS rolled out, AA was always an option as everything was always a 2-step process. First the offer window then the acknowledgement window. Batch sizes reduced or eliminated the need for pilots to use AA since on any call out a pilot was at least in a much smaller pool and had a much higher chance of actually landing the trip. But what if we eliminated the 2-step process (like we already have for QS) but pair that with smaller batches? So let’s say we set it at a batch size of 15, and bump the window time up to 15 minutes to allow people more time to make a decisions, check commute options, etc. But just like QS, if you raise your hand in that window and are the senior pilot to do so when the window closes then you are obligated to fly the award. If no one in the batch raises their hand then ARCOS just calls the next 15 pilots in the next batch. What actual batch sizes to use would be something for the union and company to decide on.
So in that example you could work through 60 pilots in an hour, whereas right now if every AA pilot lets the full 12 minutes lapse you can only go through 5/hour. So trip coverage would move much faster than it is currently while not going full-tilt toward the blast-everyone-at-once solution if we simply just dumped AA. In this setup QS would still be available as an emergency step of coverage if report time was closing in, along with the required 23m7 payment to the skipped pilot.
I feel like this setup moves reasonably towards the company’s goal of faster trip coverage without just selling the farm and blasting every single pilot every single step every single time. Under this system a pilot getting an ARCOS call knows they have a reasonable chance of getting the award.
And lastly, I am only suggesting this as a solution inside of section 6 negotiations, still using our leverage of the current TC process to get a deal done and any potential cost savings rolled into other gains for our contract.
So, today I had a thought for a possible solution (inside section 6 negotiations): what if we got rid of AA but at the same time brought back batch sizes?
Ever since ARCOS rolled out, AA was always an option as everything was always a 2-step process. First the offer window then the acknowledgement window. Batch sizes reduced or eliminated the need for pilots to use AA since on any call out a pilot was at least in a much smaller pool and had a much higher chance of actually landing the trip. But what if we eliminated the 2-step process (like we already have for QS) but pair that with smaller batches? So let’s say we set it at a batch size of 15, and bump the window time up to 15 minutes to allow people more time to make a decisions, check commute options, etc. But just like QS, if you raise your hand in that window and are the senior pilot to do so when the window closes then you are obligated to fly the award. If no one in the batch raises their hand then ARCOS just calls the next 15 pilots in the next batch. What actual batch sizes to use would be something for the union and company to decide on.
So in that example you could work through 60 pilots in an hour, whereas right now if every AA pilot lets the full 12 minutes lapse you can only go through 5/hour. So trip coverage would move much faster than it is currently while not going full-tilt toward the blast-everyone-at-once solution if we simply just dumped AA. In this setup QS would still be available as an emergency step of coverage if report time was closing in, along with the required 23m7 payment to the skipped pilot.
I feel like this setup moves reasonably towards the company’s goal of faster trip coverage without just selling the farm and blasting every single pilot every single step every single time. Under this system a pilot getting an ARCOS call knows they have a reasonable chance of getting the award.
And lastly, I am only suggesting this as a solution inside of section 6 negotiations, still using our leverage of the current TC process to get a deal done and any potential cost savings rolled into other gains for our contract.
#3
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 996
Likes: 92
So I think everyone is in agreement that the trip coverage process is broken. The current usage of auto accept bogs down the process as it works 12 minutes per pilot though all the AA on each step of coverage. Obviously the company doesn’t like this as it leads to increased costs (23m7). But one main reason that pilots started using AA in the first place was because we were getting so many nuisance calls from ARCOS when a pilot was so far down the roster that they had no legitimate shot at the award. The one basic fix I’ve seen thrown around a lot is to just eliminate AA in its entirety. But while that solves the company’s speed problem it just brings back the flood of nuisance calls for pilots.
So, today I had a thought for a possible solution (inside section 6 negotiations): what if we got rid of AA but at the same time brought back batch sizes?
So, today I had a thought for a possible solution (inside section 6 negotiations): what if we got rid of AA but at the same time brought back batch sizes?
We would need RCOS pay for batch size violations, too.
A5S
#4
So I think everyone is in agreement that the trip coverage process is broken. The current usage of auto accept bogs down the process as it works 12 minutes per pilot though all the AA on each step of coverage. Obviously the company doesn’t like this as it leads to increased costs (23m7). But one main reason that pilots started using AA in the first place was because we were getting so many nuisance calls from ARCOS when a pilot was so far down the roster that they had no legitimate shot at the award. The one basic fix I’ve seen thrown around a lot is to just eliminate AA in its entirety. But while that solves the company’s speed problem it just brings back the flood of nuisance calls for pilots.
So, today I had a thought for a possible solution (inside section 6 negotiations): what if we got rid of AA but at the same time brought back batch sizes?
Ever since ARCOS rolled out, AA was always an option as everything was always a 2-step process. First the offer window then the acknowledgement window. Batch sizes reduced or eliminated the need for pilots to use AA since on any call out a pilot was at least in a much smaller pool and had a much higher chance of actually landing the trip. But what if we eliminated the 2-step process (like we already have for QS) but pair that with smaller batches? So let’s say we set it at a batch size of 15, and bump the window time up to 15 minutes to allow people more time to make a decisions, check commute options, etc. But just like QS, if you raise your hand in that window and are the senior pilot to do so when the window closes then you are obligated to fly the award. If no one in the batch raises their hand then ARCOS just calls the next 15 pilots in the next batch. What actual batch sizes to use would be something for the union and company to decide on.
So in that example you could work through 60 pilots in an hour, whereas right now if every AA pilot lets the full 12 minutes lapse you can only go through 5/hour. So trip coverage would move much faster than it is currently while not going full-tilt toward the blast-everyone-at-once solution if we simply just dumped AA. In this setup QS would still be available as an emergency step of coverage if report time was closing in, along with the required 23m7 payment to the skipped pilot.
I feel like this setup moves reasonably towards the company’s goal of faster trip coverage without just selling the farm and blasting every single pilot every single step every single time. Under this system a pilot getting an ARCOS call knows they have a reasonable chance of getting the award.
And lastly, I am only suggesting this as a solution inside of section 6 negotiations, still using our leverage of the current TC process to get a deal done and any potential cost savings rolled into other gains for our contract.
So, today I had a thought for a possible solution (inside section 6 negotiations): what if we got rid of AA but at the same time brought back batch sizes?
Ever since ARCOS rolled out, AA was always an option as everything was always a 2-step process. First the offer window then the acknowledgement window. Batch sizes reduced or eliminated the need for pilots to use AA since on any call out a pilot was at least in a much smaller pool and had a much higher chance of actually landing the trip. But what if we eliminated the 2-step process (like we already have for QS) but pair that with smaller batches? So let’s say we set it at a batch size of 15, and bump the window time up to 15 minutes to allow people more time to make a decisions, check commute options, etc. But just like QS, if you raise your hand in that window and are the senior pilot to do so when the window closes then you are obligated to fly the award. If no one in the batch raises their hand then ARCOS just calls the next 15 pilots in the next batch. What actual batch sizes to use would be something for the union and company to decide on.
So in that example you could work through 60 pilots in an hour, whereas right now if every AA pilot lets the full 12 minutes lapse you can only go through 5/hour. So trip coverage would move much faster than it is currently while not going full-tilt toward the blast-everyone-at-once solution if we simply just dumped AA. In this setup QS would still be available as an emergency step of coverage if report time was closing in, along with the required 23m7 payment to the skipped pilot.
I feel like this setup moves reasonably towards the company’s goal of faster trip coverage without just selling the farm and blasting every single pilot every single step every single time. Under this system a pilot getting an ARCOS call knows they have a reasonable chance of getting the award.
And lastly, I am only suggesting this as a solution inside of section 6 negotiations, still using our leverage of the current TC process to get a deal done and any potential cost savings rolled into other gains for our contract.
In exchange for no other concessions and a massive quid in section 6 of course.
#5
Thread Starter
Roll’n Thunder
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,179
Likes: 594
From: Pilot
Don’t get held up on the 15/batch number. That’s just one possible number out of many that could be used (1, 2, 5, 8, etc), either set all the time or variable based on nighttime hours and/or time to report. The point is more the overall concept not the nitty gritty details.
#6
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 302
Likes: 214
Don’t get held up on the 15/batch number. That’s just one possible number out of many that could be used (1, 2, 5, 8, etc), either set all the time or variable based on nighttime hours and/or time to report. The point is more the overall concept not the nitty gritty details.
ATL schedulers calling at 0700est for example not realizing the west coast pilots they were calling were asleep at 0400pst. Instead of proper training or automation that would easily fix this, the company wanted to go with changing the rules to what we have today. Let them deal with what they asked for and wait and see how things pan out during negotiations. After QS there is zero reason to rush, we're in a good spot.
The company has shown they rather throw roughly $200m per season at the issue rather than staff the scheduling department and pilots adequately. So the next "solution" will have to come during section 6 and recapture that quid to the pilot group, however they end up going about it. Don't give that away now, even if the process is a mess.
#7
Don’t get held up on the 15/batch number. That’s just one possible number out of many that could be used (1, 2, 5, 8, etc), either set all the time or variable based on nighttime hours and/or time to report. The point is more the overall concept not the nitty gritty details.
#8
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 244
Likes: 82
Let the company figure it out and negotiate for it.
they wanted the big batch sizes in the first place.
You thought about this way too much already.…..
how about a flat $100 for every phone call I get for a trip I end up not getting awarded.
they wanted the big batch sizes in the first place.
You thought about this way too much already.…..
how about a flat $100 for every phone call I get for a trip I end up not getting awarded.
#9
Submitting a "call me for everything" slip and then getting mad when you get called for everything is peak pilot. Most of our problems get solved with using parameters.
That being said, I'd be all for eliminating the need to submit new slips every month. More pilots would put time and effort into submitting slips with parameters if:
1. They didn't have to every month
2. They were easier to "turn off/on"
That being said, I'd be all for eliminating the need to submit new slips every month. More pilots would put time and effort into submitting slips with parameters if:
1. They didn't have to every month
2. They were easier to "turn off/on"
#10
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 27
Submitting a "call me for everything" slip and then getting mad when you get called for everything is peak pilot. Most of our problems get solved with using parameters.
That being said, I'd be all for eliminating the need to submit new slips every month. More pilots would put time and effort into submitting slips with parameters if:
1. They didn't have to every month
2. They were easier to "turn off/on"
That being said, I'd be all for eliminating the need to submit new slips every month. More pilots would put time and effort into submitting slips with parameters if:
1. They didn't have to every month
2. They were easier to "turn off/on"
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