Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-24-2012 | 07:33 PM
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05-24-2012 | 07:36 PM
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From: 747-400 Captain
No Carl, what you don't like is that I have facts to counter your incessant blathering.
Now get one thing straight. I work for Delta Air Lines just like you do. I get my paycheck from Delta Air Lines just like you do. I don't work for you or any other pilot, so don't give me the "I'm your boss and don't get uppity with me" routine. You are not my boss. Sometimes, the union rents my time from the company and repays them for my time. I wouldn't care a whit if that never happened ever again. People asked for my help and I gave it. I have a lucrative side business that I set aside to do this work.
I was away from home constantly for months. At the beginning of this project my wife snapped her ankle in half slipping on an icy porch. I have been trying to balance this project and also take care of my family and mostly my family got short shrift. That is pretty tough to live with.
Some people decided to sacrifice their lives to work on behalf of 12,000 pilots and some people decided to sit on the sidelines and do nothing but throw rocks. Try for once to saddle up and put the lives of 12,000 pilots and their families in your hands and see what is more stressful, the life of the combatant or the life of the armchair quarterback. Wouldn't it be easy if we could just make silly demands like you recommend and have management accept them all. In that world girls fly little pink ponies around Candy Cane city. In the real world it doesn't work like that.
I don't loathe pilots, only bitter, old Red Book warriors that spend their lives wallowing in their bile.
Now get one thing straight. I work for Delta Air Lines just like you do. I get my paycheck from Delta Air Lines just like you do. I don't work for you or any other pilot, so don't give me the "I'm your boss and don't get uppity with me" routine. You are not my boss. Sometimes, the union rents my time from the company and repays them for my time. I wouldn't care a whit if that never happened ever again. People asked for my help and I gave it. I have a lucrative side business that I set aside to do this work.
I was away from home constantly for months. At the beginning of this project my wife snapped her ankle in half slipping on an icy porch. I have been trying to balance this project and also take care of my family and mostly my family got short shrift. That is pretty tough to live with.
Some people decided to sacrifice their lives to work on behalf of 12,000 pilots and some people decided to sit on the sidelines and do nothing but throw rocks. Try for once to saddle up and put the lives of 12,000 pilots and their families in your hands and see what is more stressful, the life of the combatant or the life of the armchair quarterback. Wouldn't it be easy if we could just make silly demands like you recommend and have management accept them all. In that world girls fly little pink ponies around Candy Cane city. In the real world it doesn't work like that.
I don't loathe pilots, only bitter, old Red Book warriors that spend their lives wallowing in their bile.
And yes you do loathe us. The contract doesn't apply to you as long as you can keep the MEC chairman happy. Your posts do nothing but drip the loathing you feel for us. You should try to fix that if you have any desire at all for effectiveness.
Carl
05-24-2012 | 07:39 PM
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From: DAL FO
I guess I wasn't clear, but the ratio is re-figured every 10 deliveries, with the ratio favoring mainline higher and higher as the 76 seaters and 717's come on, and the 50 seaters are parked. The ratio calculation is different than compliance monitoring which is covered in this section:
1.D.9.c says that compliance will "be measured for the first time on July 1, 2014 and then measured again each succeeding July 1 thereafter, in each instance for the preceeding 12 months on a weighted basis [emphasis mine.]"
The way I read it, and that it was explained in the lounge the other day, is that the bolded part above prevents the loophole that you were suggesting. Thanks for engaging in the conversation though. You made me go re-read that section, which is a good thing!
05-24-2012 | 07:49 PM
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After just a couple of days of reading and exploring and what ifs, I've decided that the company wants this, and they will come back to the table quite quickly after we vote this down.
Personal opinion, but it seems that they can't wait 3 years, so the TVM argument is moot because it is something they need and for once we hold all the cards. The problem is what they need I am not sure we will ever agree to give ie more large RJs
Very interesting how the AT agreement with SWA works right in with the new DAL agreement with SWA. Transition of the AT 717s to SWA start in Jan of 2013, instead they start coming to us.
Then in 2015, when our contract finally catches up to 2012 SWA rates, the 717 rates at AT would snap to SWA 737 rates leaving our 717 drivers WAY behind what 717s SWA still has left.
Just be glad you aren't that first displaced AT 717 Capt.
Personal opinion, but it seems that they can't wait 3 years, so the TVM argument is moot because it is something they need and for once we hold all the cards. The problem is what they need I am not sure we will ever agree to give ie more large RJs
Very interesting how the AT agreement with SWA works right in with the new DAL agreement with SWA. Transition of the AT 717s to SWA start in Jan of 2013, instead they start coming to us.
Then in 2015, when our contract finally catches up to 2012 SWA rates, the 717 rates at AT would snap to SWA 737 rates leaving our 717 drivers WAY behind what 717s SWA still has left.
Just be glad you aren't that first displaced AT 717 Capt.
05-24-2012 | 07:56 PM
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From: 747-400 Captain
After just a couple of days of reading and exploring and what ifs, I've decided that the company wants this, and they will come back to the table quite quickly after we vote this down.
Personal opinion, but it seems that they can't wait 3 years, so the TVM argument is moot because it is something they need and for once we hold all the cards. The problem is what they need I am not sure we will ever agree to give ie more large RJs
Personal opinion, but it seems that they can't wait 3 years, so the TVM argument is moot because it is something they need and for once we hold all the cards. The problem is what they need I am not sure we will ever agree to give ie more large RJs
The problem is that's not what the company wants. What they want is whipsaw ability. That can't happen if we fly those jets. Instead, they need to attempt to scare us into believing there's no other alternative. Our union is a full-on participant with management on the scare tactics.
Carl
05-24-2012 | 07:57 PM
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05-24-2012 | 07:59 PM
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From: window seat
05-24-2012 | 08:00 PM
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
05-24-2012 | 08:00 PM
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05-24-2012 | 08:05 PM
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From: DAL FO
I agree. I would love to see that. Unfortunately, I haven't heard a solid plan of how to do that.
I have to admit that I am intrigued by the idea of a block hour ratio that sets a falling (only) floor of how much we can outsource.
Currently DCI does nearly half of our domestic lift. This proposal will significantly shift flying to mainline. That shift will be permanent. Additionally, we will have gained JV protection and many other incremental gains. None of it is sexy, but when you take the whole package, it is something that needs to be considered very carefully.
Anyone that is dismissing this agreement without a serious look is doing themselves a disservice. If we ultimately decide as a group to shoot this thing down, then great. As long as the decision is made on facts and logical analysis of the TA I'm fine with it. Let's just make sure we are making the best decision we can, without letting our pride or emotions getting mixed in.
I have to admit that I am intrigued by the idea of a block hour ratio that sets a falling (only) floor of how much we can outsource.
Currently DCI does nearly half of our domestic lift. This proposal will significantly shift flying to mainline. That shift will be permanent. Additionally, we will have gained JV protection and many other incremental gains. None of it is sexy, but when you take the whole package, it is something that needs to be considered very carefully.
Anyone that is dismissing this agreement without a serious look is doing themselves a disservice. If we ultimately decide as a group to shoot this thing down, then great. As long as the decision is made on facts and logical analysis of the TA I'm fine with it. Let's just make sure we are making the best decision we can, without letting our pride or emotions getting mixed in.
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