Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1212002)

Your right I did. The motivation for DAL to move now, is large RJ's and debt reduction. We pass on this and decide to go back it will be 2014 or beyond before the RJ issue is not one that will be their quickest course to an agreement or debt reduction.

The God for honest truth is most pilots here are not willing to wait for FLAP's, they want their money. A No vote in the majority will mean more pay and maybe more protections in 1, but the large RJ bump will remain. I understand that and am still voting do re-engage. Why? Because I want better protections and a process to take this bump in large RJ's down over the next 10-15 years. I want limits on aircraft numbers and extension durations, I want current CPA's to no be renewed. I also want broader JV language, better non compliance language with the ratios, I want a check valve on the ratios, I want a domestic alliance carrier clause outside of the JV language(covers more than just RJET but putting it in there before they do it is wise as well), I want HND added to the 315 weekly slot language for NRT(loss of leverage and force majure if the business plan or market viability changes, and I want to see better any beyond language for a replacement type for the 717. That section 1.

The rest of the agreement has to fix pay, reroute, reserve rotation pay to equal line holders, better CDA(6 int'l and 5 dom min) reserve rotation guarantee, codify the commuting policy, LV+7.5 not 15 or make it voluntary, Work rules are gradual implemented based on number of retirements, sick policy deletes DAL or their designee requesting medical documents unless you go to LTD; language does not need to be codified, holiday pay, more DC, stock grants immediately vested, better codification of non-rev policy, bow wave if MLB block goes 10% below two year rolling avg, and five PTO days added to the APD function; to name a few.

All of these are reasons I am willing to send it back. Little tweaks make this a much better agreement.

That right there is my opinion. Pay is still one, scope is two. Look at this board and all of the supposed Scope Warriors. Many agree that more RJ's are fine and are voting yes to this TA for more money, you really think that you can get this group to stand the ground? Its all in the psyche profile that was hired and is the majority here.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1212002)

That right there is my opinion. Pay is still one, scope is two. Look at this board and all of the supposed Scope Warriors. Many agree that more RJ's are fine and are voting yes to this TA for more money, you really think that you can get this group to stand the ground? Its all in the psyche profile that was hired and is the majority here.

Originally Posted by bluejuice71 (Post 1212483)

That's a lot of stuff you want there ACL. I want my pension back too. I want May 1, 2004 pay rates plus COLA too. I want all DCI flying to be done by Delta pilots. That's what I don't think guys get about the negotiations. It's not about what we want. It's about what we can successfully negotiate. Unfortunately in the environment we are in this TA is all we're going to get. This is all the company was willing to give us. If we turn this down we may get slightly higher pay rates, but at what cost? Maybe we will have to agree to 82 seat limits rather than 76 seaters? One needs to look no farther than the rest of the industry. Since 2008 not ONE SINGLE AIRLINE has gotten any significant raises. What makes us so sure that if we turn this down we are going to get tighter scope language and higher pay and all of the other things you want? Unfortunately I don't see it happening. I think this is the best deal on the table at this time.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1212490)

Man this is sad to read. I really wish you were wrong, but I don't think you are.

Carl

Originally Posted by CVG767A (Post 1212549)

It's fairly obvious that, before the merger, the Delta guys and the Northwest guys had a radically different approach to labor relations. Despite that, it doesn't seem like we had radically different contracts. It's tough to make the case that one approach is more effective than the other.

Originally Posted by contrails (Post 1212556)

If only it were so simple.

You've left out one huge variable in the equation: management.

Originally Posted by bluejuice71 (Post 1212483)

That's a lot of stuff you want there ACL. I want my pension back too. I want May 1, 2004 pay rates plus COLA too. I want all DCI flying to be done by Delta pilots. That's what I don't think guys get about the negotiations. It's not about what we want. It's about what we can successfully negotiate. Unfortunately in the environment we are in this TA is all we're going to get. This is all the company was willing to give us. If we turn this down we may get slightly higher pay rates, but at what cost? Maybe we will have to agree to 82 seat limits rather than 76 seaters? One needs to look no farther than the rest of the industry. Since 2008 not ONE SINGLE AIRLINE has gotten any significant raises. What makes us so sure that if we turn this down we are going to get tighter scope language and higher pay and all of the other things you want? Unfortunately I don't see it happening. I think this is the best deal on the table at this time.

Originally Posted by Free Bird (Post 1212596)

Working 16 days in July as an 88 FO. This TA will actually have us working more than we currently do. The company is making record profits and our quality of life continues the trend downward?

Originally Posted by LeineLodge (Post 1212601)

For how many hours? At 5:15/day that's an 84 hour line at a minimum.

They won't be able to force you over your 84 hour line, even at the highest ALV of the year. DPA doesn't change under the TA. ADG is added for the rare 88 day with a DH only. How exactly will you be working more that you currently are? Also, you'll be paid more than 20% more (88 guys get the extra bump to 90 pay) for that 84 hours in 2.5 years.

Here's a simple math exercise:

84 hour line at $100.14/hr (5 year 88 FO - current contract) = $8,411.76

84 hour line at $123.36/hr (still 5 year 88 FO - TA on 1/1/2015) = $10,362.24

I didn't include longevity steps for this pilot to keep it apples-to-apples. The difference = $1950.48/month

So you will be working the same number of days (to get the same monthly line) for nearly an extra $2000/month in 2.5 years. This is on the 2nd smallest paying aircraft we have.

I'm still failing to see what you're concerned with?? If you want to work a little less, then bid a lower time line - same as today.