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Old 06-28-2012 | 06:41 PM
  #104301  
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From: SLC 767ER Captain
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
You view employees through the prism that they should always be paid less than they are worth. Employees are greedy, clueless and nothing but an expense. They could never be honest, aware and save or make you money.

For all of those same reasons when you call a plumber to come work on your house they should also eat your bad financial decisions. If their going rate is $95/hr, pay him $65/hr because you got a divorce, you lost money on gold when everyone else made money, your house dropped in value and you drilled holes in the water pipes installing a shelf and the basement has 4" of water and rising. He needs to be aware of all of that and realize just because other plumbers get $95/hr he is working for you and you'll go without him if he doesn't accept $65/hr.
@FTB: Your statement: “You view employees through the prism that they should always be paid less than they are worth. Employees are greedy, clueless and nothing but an expense. They could never be honest, aware and save or make you money.” Wow, are you ever in fantasy land. Nothing could be further from the truth. I –IS- one of those employees. Let me make this perfectly clear: Just because I said I have a managerial business degree does not infer that I’m on Management’s side. I AM NOT MANAGEMENT! Please forgive me but I’m not even going to address the rest of your hyperbola nonsense. I could certainly and easily counter your plumber example but what is the point? If you would like to discuss this logically, I’m at your disposal.
Old 06-28-2012 | 06:44 PM
  #104302  
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Originally Posted by Boomer
Maybe Ed Bastian is unable to sleep tonight. He's going to lay there until 3am wondering "Where am I going to find the money to give those pilots a 4% raise on Monday? The more I crunch the numbers, the more convinced I am that this TA was a bad idea. JV balances, early retirements, the Republic carveout - I never saw them coming. How did Mike Campbell let this thing spin so far out of control?"


I wonder if Anderson is going to toss and turn tonight, also unable to sleep, because he knows Delta will need more than 125 50-seaters? "I really wanted 300 82-seat turboprops, but thanks to those shrewd DALPA negotiators, I'm stuck with this lemon of a TA. What was I thinking, asking for early negotiations? Please oh-please oh-please let them vote it down so I can go back to Plan A... growing DCI by 250% in eight years using untested GTF technology" Then Mrs. Anderson pats him reassuringly and says "There there dear, it's only for three years. You can try for all those nice things next time"
OK, even I see the humor here.
Old 06-28-2012 | 06:46 PM
  #104303  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Actually some did. Know of ten pilots that went from fence to no or yes to no.
Glad to hear we aren't posting for nothing, even if it is contrary to my goals.
Old 06-28-2012 | 06:48 PM
  #104304  
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Originally Posted by LeineLodge
So from this post it sounds like you'd prefer to negotiate the next "merger" contract from the higher ground of the TA??

Buzz are you thinking of changing to a YES?

I'll be honest, the reason you put above is a big part of my YES vote. Aside from what I see as benefits to this agreement, why not start from higher ground on the next interim agreement?
You are using strategic logic foreign to the NO voters. Shame on you.
Old 06-28-2012 | 06:54 PM
  #104305  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Actually some did. Know of ten pilots that went from fence to no or yes to no.
Interestingly, there were a couple of DALPA forum fire-breathing no voters that did a public u-turn in the last 48 hours.
Old 06-28-2012 | 07:01 PM
  #104306  
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From: Light Chop
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Originally Posted by Boomer
Maybe Ed Bastian is unable to sleep tonight. He's going to lay there until 3am wondering "Where am I going to find the money to give those pilots a 4% raise on Monday? The more I crunch the numbers, the more convinced I am that this TA was a bad idea. JV balances, early retirements, the Republic carveout - I never saw them coming. How did Mike Campbell let this thing spin so far out of control?"


I wonder if Anderson is going to toss and turn tonight, also unable to sleep, because he knows Delta will need more than 125 50-seaters? "I really wanted 300 82-seat turboprops, but thanks to those shrewd DALPA negotiators, I'm stuck with this lemon of a TA. What was I thinking, asking for early negotiations? Please oh-please oh-please let them vote it down so I can go back to Plan A... growing DCI by 250% in eight years using untested GTF technology" Then Mrs. Anderson pats him reassuringly and says "There there dear, it's only for three years. You can try for all those nice things next time"
Fantastic post boomer.
Old 06-28-2012 | 07:16 PM
  #104307  
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From: blueJet
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Originally Posted by Waves
OK, even I see the humor here.
If you think that's funny, go back a zillion pages to my post on why Shatner and Takei have different opinions on hard landings. I bring it up every 6 months until Carl gets me hired.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Fantastic post boomer.
Thanks; and FYI - I cut about 70% of the really funny stuff just in case Anderson knows who I am.
Old 06-28-2012 | 07:21 PM
  #104308  
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I'll save you the trouble:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ha...sponse-14.html

I crack me up. Of course now I'm laughing so hard, it won't be the dog that rats me out when I go to bed tonight.
Old 06-28-2012 | 07:41 PM
  #104309  
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From: Light Chop
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Originally Posted by Waves
@FTB: Your statement: “You view employees through the prism that they should always be paid less than they are worth. Employees are greedy, clueless and nothing but an expense. They could never be honest, aware and save or make you money.” Wow, are you ever in fantasy land. Nothing could be further from the truth. I –IS- one of those employees. Let me make this perfectly clear: Just because I said I have a managerial business degree does not infer that I’m on Management’s side. I AM NOT MANAGEMENT! Please forgive me but I’m not even going to address the rest of your hyperbola nonsense. I could certainly and easily counter your plumber example but what is the point? If you would like to discuss this logically, I’m at your disposal.

Waves, this is what you posted:

I agree, but let’s not forget, all of your profits should go to your driver. He doesn't really care if you should ever need to replace your car in the future. He is not concerned about operating costs or competition in the workforce. After all, that’s your problem isn’t it? He also doesn't care that you have other employees and other debt to pay. The hell with them all. After all, he didn’t make any of those business decisions required to run the company. Especially the bad decisions. He just expects to take advantage of all the good decisions. The bad decisions you should be willing to eat. After all, if it weren't for him, you wouldn't even own a car. “Yeah, that’s it. That’s the Ticket. And my Wife, Morgan Fairchild, no Cindy Crawford, Yeah, that’s it.”



or in other words:


Your employee wants all your money,
Your employee really doesn’t care about your needs,
Your employee is not concerned about how much things cost,
Your employee doesn’t care about what others get paid to do his job,
Your employee thinks he is immune to your problems,
Your employee doesn’t care that you have others to pay,
Your employee doesn’t care that you have debt,
Your employee’s attitude is “to hell with everyone but me, me first!”,
Your employee doesn’t get it and is incapable of being as good as you,
Your employee believes life is a one street and he gets his first,
Your employee thinks you owe him, and
Your employee is out of touch with what he is worth, especially to women.

When I flew corporate I saw what a really bad attitude towards your employees, i.e. pilots, can cost financially. [Aircraft] Owners want to nickle and dime them wherever they could with a QOL nobody in their right mind would accept and they were genuinely stunned when the pilots walked out of the door. And they had no idea that finding a pilot would take a while. Nor that training would cost $30K and another month and half of down time. NOr that the new pilot would not be up to speed in procedures, norms and their personal preferences. That in the meantime no body was monitoring the airplane's needs. That the millions (and I mean millions) that some pilots made their owners in charter revenue would be lost if the new pilot was incapable of meeting those goals. That the new pilot due to workload and stress could damage equipment and/or the airplane. And that the cost to firing the pilot would be high as you repeat that whole cycle and lost income opportunities. All because the boss wanted to cut a few hundred dollars here or there, stiff the pilot on something or deny a weekend off in advance because last month you hardly used them and you might want to use them this month. At the least, you'll tell them to wait at the airport for you and never show. Just to make sure the employee knew who the boss was.

Those pilots are chauffeurs, and Waves, what you wrote reminded me so much of what I saw on the other side of the fence.

Last edited by forgot to bid; 06-28-2012 at 07:57 PM.
Old 06-28-2012 | 07:47 PM
  #104310  
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From: Light Chop
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Originally Posted by Boomer
I'll save you the trouble:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ha...sponse-14.html

I crack me up. Of course now I'm laughing so hard, it won't be the dog that rats me out when I go to bed tonight.
Big fluffy pillows on the floor and the dog is no longer an issue.

Also, roll on top of him a couple of times and he gives up on the idea of sleeping anywhere near you.
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