Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-17-2012, 06:07 AM
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B25, Left
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by UncleSam
Little tidbit from Motley Fool that I thought you all would be interested in:
1-Star Stocks Poised to Plunge: Delta Air Lines?
By Brian D. Pacampara | More Articles
September 16, 2012 | Comments (1)
Based on the aggregated intelligence of 180,000-plus investors participating in Motley Fool CAPS, the Fool's free investing community, airline operator Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL ) has received the dreaded one-star ranking.
With that in mind, let's take a closer look at Delta's business and see what CAPS investors are saying about the stock right now.
Delta facts
Headquarters (Founded) Atlanta (1924)
Market Cap $8.0 billion
Industry Airlines
Trailing-12-Month Revenue $36.4 billion
Management CEO Richard Anderson (since September 2007)
CFO Paul Jacobson (since March 2012)
Return on Equity (Average, Past 3 Years) 8.9%
Cash/Debt $3.5 billion / $13.1 billion
Competitors AMR
Deutsche Lufthansa
United Continental Holdings
Sources: S&P Capital IQ and Motley Fool CAPS.
On CAPS, 42% of the 932 members who have rated Delta believe the stock will underperform the S&P 500 going forward.
Earlier this summer, one of those Fools, colleague Justin Loiseau (TMFJLo), succinctly summed up the Delta bear case for our community:
Delta suffers from the worst fuel efficiency of any airline. It suffers from lackluster customer confidence and has the oldest fleet of any major airline. It is reinvesting too slowly and its corner-cutting will continue to push it further behind competition.
The one comment:
On September 16, 2012, at 2:45 PM, tbirdreg wrote:
The observations about Delta are right on target. When I worked at NWA, which was absorbed by Delta 4 years ago, we had Anderson as the CEO. It was the same story.... lack of consumer confidence, poor fleet efficiency, and reinvesting too slowly or not at all. That is what cause NWA to go down the tubes. Now Delta has adopted that same strategy. The latest is the leasing of AirTran/Southwest's used Boeing 717, they are in effect replacing the DC9-50s which are 40+ years old with a new version of the airplane no one wants to fly on.
1-Star Stocks Poised to Plunge: Delta Air Lines?
By Brian D. Pacampara | More Articles
September 16, 2012 | Comments (1)
Based on the aggregated intelligence of 180,000-plus investors participating in Motley Fool CAPS, the Fool's free investing community, airline operator Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL ) has received the dreaded one-star ranking.
With that in mind, let's take a closer look at Delta's business and see what CAPS investors are saying about the stock right now.
Delta facts
Headquarters (Founded) Atlanta (1924)
Market Cap $8.0 billion
Industry Airlines
Trailing-12-Month Revenue $36.4 billion
Management CEO Richard Anderson (since September 2007)
CFO Paul Jacobson (since March 2012)
Return on Equity (Average, Past 3 Years) 8.9%
Cash/Debt $3.5 billion / $13.1 billion
Competitors AMR
Deutsche Lufthansa
United Continental Holdings
Sources: S&P Capital IQ and Motley Fool CAPS.
On CAPS, 42% of the 932 members who have rated Delta believe the stock will underperform the S&P 500 going forward.
Earlier this summer, one of those Fools, colleague Justin Loiseau (TMFJLo), succinctly summed up the Delta bear case for our community:
Delta suffers from the worst fuel efficiency of any airline. It suffers from lackluster customer confidence and has the oldest fleet of any major airline. It is reinvesting too slowly and its corner-cutting will continue to push it further behind competition.
The one comment:
On September 16, 2012, at 2:45 PM, tbirdreg wrote:
The observations about Delta are right on target. When I worked at NWA, which was absorbed by Delta 4 years ago, we had Anderson as the CEO. It was the same story.... lack of consumer confidence, poor fleet efficiency, and reinvesting too slowly or not at all. That is what cause NWA to go down the tubes. Now Delta has adopted that same strategy. The latest is the leasing of AirTran/Southwest's used Boeing 717, they are in effect replacing the DC9-50s which are 40+ years old with a new version of the airplane no one wants to fly on.
I guess your life and career are terrible since DAL absorbed NWA. Seriously. Is this your outlook and impression?
09-17-2012, 06:15 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,012
Originally Posted by UncleSam
The one comment:
On September 16, 2012, at 2:45 PM, tbirdreg wrote:
The observations about Delta are right on target. When I worked at NWA, which was absorbed by Delta 4 years ago, we had Anderson as the CEO. It was the same story.... lack of consumer confidence, poor fleet efficiency, and reinvesting too slowly or not at all. That is what cause NWA to go down the tubes. Now Delta has adopted that same strategy. The latest is the leasing of AirTran/Southwest's used Boeing 717, they are in effect replacing the DC9-50s which are 40+ years old with a new version of the airplane no one wants to fly on.
On September 16, 2012, at 2:45 PM, tbirdreg wrote:
The observations about Delta are right on target. When I worked at NWA, which was absorbed by Delta 4 years ago, we had Anderson as the CEO. It was the same story.... lack of consumer confidence, poor fleet efficiency, and reinvesting too slowly or not at all. That is what cause NWA to go down the tubes. Now Delta has adopted that same strategy. The latest is the leasing of AirTran/Southwest's used Boeing 717, they are in effect replacing the DC9-50s which are 40+ years old with a new version of the airplane no one wants to fly on.
Of course the 737-900 will improve our numbers at the expense of forgetting the APU every now and then on the after TO check
09-17-2012, 06:21 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
This article is a better description of Delta's financial status as opposed to the foolish article. Motley Fool, like Forbes, tends to be all over the place.
SeekingAlpha
SeekingAlpha
Last edited by johnso29; 09-17-2012 at 06:30 AM. Reason: Provided functioning link
09-17-2012, 06:38 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
I PD'ed a few of reserve days this month. How do I use the bank to "fill up" I have gotten into the bank page but I'm not sure how many hours to use. Can I just put in for 5 hours? I have never used the bank and there isn't much guidance out there on it.
09-17-2012, 06:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL
Funny, T&G 12-06 never mentioned the economy as a caveat when shilling for the TA with growth forecasts.
"...Conclusion: The analysis described in this Touch & Gos is based on flat system-wide capacity, which is less than what Delta is predicting. If capacity grows, the staffing differences predicted above would be even greater. Under the TA, there are hard caps placed on the number of DCI aircraft and therefore all growth flying must go to mainline. Flight Operations recently announced that they are prepared to begin the pilot hiring process as early as the fourth quarter of this year. This is consistent with the analysis contained in this Touch & Gos. Once the hiring starts, it will likely continue at a steady pace for several years...."
I guess the "stupid" part has to do with believing what you are told during a ratification sales job. The "economy" has become the scapegoat, taking the heat off the fact that this TA was sold to the pilots relying on too many overly optimistic assumptions.
"...Conclusion: The analysis described in this Touch & Gos is based on flat system-wide capacity, which is less than what Delta is predicting. If capacity grows, the staffing differences predicted above would be even greater. Under the TA, there are hard caps placed on the number of DCI aircraft and therefore all growth flying must go to mainline. Flight Operations recently announced that they are prepared to begin the pilot hiring process as early as the fourth quarter of this year. This is consistent with the analysis contained in this Touch & Gos. Once the hiring starts, it will likely continue at a steady pace for several years...."
I guess the "stupid" part has to do with believing what you are told during a ratification sales job. The "economy" has become the scapegoat, taking the heat off the fact that this TA was sold to the pilots relying on too many overly optimistic assumptions.
We had not planned to address staffing issues other than those already provided in previous communiqués, since a detailed discussion calls for forward looking projections and assumptions. There have been some questions and, unfortunately, a lot of rumors perpetuated, which have no basis in fact concerning the impact on pilot staffing resulting from the shift in flying from DCI to mainline due to the Tentative Agreement (TA). If pilots are considering these impacts in relation to our TA, then that consideration should be based on facts and not internet rumors and disinformation.
What part of that staffing argument is spin? Please specifically show the part that was spin. We laid out the aircraft delivery schedules, we laid out the staffing assumptions, we went through a detailed analysis of the retirement assumptions. Anyone with a brain could either accept that analysis or conduct their own given the facts that were presented. It was only after a concerted effort was made to deliberately mislead our pilots that this staffing piece was produced. Is that spin or is that trying to present facts? The problem is you don't want facts, you want emotion to match your agenda.
What is happening in Europe right now? It is in a recession. Yes, the economy is contracting and not by a little. Spain has unemployment above 20%, that is depression level. It is impacting the world economy including China and India. And you call that a scapegoat? Are you so unaware that you don't understand that world business investment drives our entire company? Without the people flying on high fare tickets, this airline would not survive. If you don't have that traffic, you must either contract flying or lose money. It is not that complicated. Or maybe you think it would be better if we went back to unrestrained growth followed by bankruptcy? That worked out so well last time.
So, if hiring doesn't begin in December of this year, it will be July or August of next year. Is seven or eight months such a long time in your world? Seriously, you and Nu Guy are like bratty little children that lash out whenever you don't get your way. Read the entire document and then come back with something that is not based on actual facts and analysis. We specifically mentioned that this was based on flat capacity. What if capacity is down 1 or 2% next year? Well, there is your 7 or 8 months. Do you not have any forward vision or are you just vapor locked into what happens in the next three months?
In that touch and go, what is the difference projected in staffing for this year with and without the TA? 1 person, yes 1. By the end of 2013, the difference was 180 or about 1.5% of the pilot group. So are you saying that that one pilot that one measly pilot is the eight month difference between hiring and not hiring? Is that it, that some pilot looked at that document and said, "Wow, one more pilot needed for this year, yes that pushes me over the edge now I vote yes." What is the spin, is it the touch and go or your selective reading and quoting of the document to match your predefined agenda? Sorry, you are the spin doctors here.
Seriously, listen to you two bleat away on here is just funny. You should be embarrassed. You talk about how to reform the union yet you are unable or unwilling to do even the most basic research about your industry and what affects it. Open your eyes gents and take a look around the world. Quit staring at your belly button, you are not the center of the world.
09-17-2012, 06:54 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 793
Originally Posted by sailingfun
So you thought those jobs were going to show up in 76 days?
.......
The first 717 however is still about a year away from a in service date. Again the contract was signed 76 days ago. Talk to me in 3 years!
.......
The first 717 however is still about a year away from a in service date. Again the contract was signed 76 days ago. Talk to me in 3 years!
09-17-2012, 06:58 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,519
Originally Posted by UncleSam
motley Fool:
The latest is the leasing of AirTran/Southwest's used Boeing 717, they are in effect replacing the DC9-50s which are 40+ years old with a new version of the airplane no one wants to fly on.
The latest is the leasing of AirTran/Southwest's used Boeing 717, they are in effect replacing the DC9-50s which are 40+ years old with a new version of the airplane no one wants to fly on.
Reply 1:
"United. If we go with Delta we might wind up on one of those old 717s"
Reply 2:
"Whichever one is cheaper"
If they think Reply 1 will ever happen, they are fools.
09-17-2012, 07:07 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: west coast wannabe
Posts: 815
Originally Posted by flyallnite
I was very surprised to hear that Istanbul has been dropped. SD said the yields are too low despite high load factors. We recently up gauged the service and have served the market for 20 years. The Turkish economy is a bright spot in Europe. It would have been more accurate to say that Turkish Air chased us out with their recent expansion. Just like Air Berlin did.
Funny how we cut out IST and at the same time United is adding Ewr- IST? I guess we are so good at chasing yield these days.. ahh, bean counters, gotta love'em!
09-17-2012, 07:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,180
Boomer,
It would still Reply 2 even if the question was.
"Dear, should I I book on Delta or this new Brand X that has clapped out, 40-year old DC-9s flown by recent aviation high school grads?"
And that is where aviation is in 2012.
GF
It would still Reply 2 even if the question was.
"Dear, should I I book on Delta or this new Brand X that has clapped out, 40-year old DC-9s flown by recent aviation high school grads?"
And that is where aviation is in 2012.
GF
09-17-2012, 07:11 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,519
Originally Posted by Jesse
errrrrr... ummm...wait, was that you?
The talking points I remember went something like...
"The TA says the economy can not be used as Force Majeure to avoid the fleets/ratios/commitments"
"Even if the economy slips, at least this TA forces Delta to shrink the Regionals too"
"They will need to hire two thousand pilots by Christmas because that's how many guys will take an early retirement, plus training will need to spool up this year for the 717s arriving next year. +717!!!"
Pretty sure that last one was Bill Lundberg's Brother, posting as Bill.
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