Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-25-2009, 04:40 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by Nosmo King
Is Sailingfun on vacation? I asked him this question on another thread and he hasn't responded, so I did the research myself.
Here is more campaign material for acl
A330 Agreement for 4 pilot augmentation.
The CROT committee negotiated a new facility in the bulk area for two pilots.
The really nice existing facility near the flight deck will be removed when the bulk facility is installed.
Until the bulk facility is installed, the existing room will remain, and Seat 5-J will be used in the interim as a rest area for the 4th pilot (known as the FO). 5-J will be modified to lay flat AND horizontal. 4-J will be given limited recline to compensate for the new seat in 5-J. The obligatory curtain will be installed.
The old bunk area will be converted to galley and two more biz class seats will be added as the galley is rearranged.
The CROT consisted of a DAL-S negotiator, a DTW747A and a DTW330B.
The agreement was negotiated and then sent directly to LM, who signed it.
The elected LEC Officers were briefed last week at the quarterly MEC Meeting on the contents of the new agreement. There was no opportunity to vote or amend the agreement.
One thing they did right:
The Seat 5-J authorization drops dead on June 30, 2010 or 2011. I am still trying to get an exact date. 11 airplanes will be modified with the bulk facility as they come in for other mods to biz class.
My favorite question asked about the agreement:
"How are the pilots going to get any rest in the compartment with an MEL that requires the APU to be running for the entire flight, since the APU is next to the bulk compartment?"
Answer: "That was a good question.... never considered that"
Question not answered yet:
Can these airplanes be flown under 12 and over 8 hours. Current JPWA requires the pilot rest seat and third jumpseat in the old facility. If we gave up the jumpseat, that's a concession IMO.
So to answer the question, there has been an agreement signed by the MEC Chairman without any oversight/input/proofreading/voting by the elected reps.
The NEXT question is how many others have there been and how many more will there be?
The answer needs to be "NO MORE FROM THIS POINT FORWARD"
I would also like to know when the Delta MEC Policy Manual will be written so that ALL the reps know what rules are used to conduct MEC business at meetings.
END RANT
Here is more campaign material for acl
A330 Agreement for 4 pilot augmentation.
The CROT committee negotiated a new facility in the bulk area for two pilots.
The really nice existing facility near the flight deck will be removed when the bulk facility is installed.
Until the bulk facility is installed, the existing room will remain, and Seat 5-J will be used in the interim as a rest area for the 4th pilot (known as the FO). 5-J will be modified to lay flat AND horizontal. 4-J will be given limited recline to compensate for the new seat in 5-J. The obligatory curtain will be installed.
The old bunk area will be converted to galley and two more biz class seats will be added as the galley is rearranged.
The CROT consisted of a DAL-S negotiator, a DTW747A and a DTW330B.
The agreement was negotiated and then sent directly to LM, who signed it.
The elected LEC Officers were briefed last week at the quarterly MEC Meeting on the contents of the new agreement. There was no opportunity to vote or amend the agreement.
One thing they did right:
The Seat 5-J authorization drops dead on June 30, 2010 or 2011. I am still trying to get an exact date. 11 airplanes will be modified with the bulk facility as they come in for other mods to biz class.
My favorite question asked about the agreement:
"How are the pilots going to get any rest in the compartment with an MEL that requires the APU to be running for the entire flight, since the APU is next to the bulk compartment?"
Answer: "That was a good question.... never considered that"
Question not answered yet:
Can these airplanes be flown under 12 and over 8 hours. Current JPWA requires the pilot rest seat and third jumpseat in the old facility. If we gave up the jumpseat, that's a concession IMO.
So to answer the question, there has been an agreement signed by the MEC Chairman without any oversight/input/proofreading/voting by the elected reps.
The NEXT question is how many others have there been and how many more will there be?
The answer needs to be "NO MORE FROM THIS POINT FORWARD"
I would also like to know when the Delta MEC Policy Manual will be written so that ALL the reps know what rules are used to conduct MEC business at meetings.
END RANT
Before you go on a public rant, it might help your credibility if you just bothered to open your contract and read it. It took me all of 2 minutes to find Section 16 - Crew Augmentation and International Operation and read down to the bottom of page 1 and find Section C - On Board Crew Rest Accomodations.
Edit to ask one more question. Can an A-330 go ETOPS with an MCO that requires the APU to be running in flight? I am not sure you can launch an ETOPS flight with an inop generator.
Last edited by alfaromeo; 07-25-2009 at 05:06 AM.
07-25-2009, 04:43 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Yes, there will probably be some CVG ER displacements in the mix, maybe a few other ER slots, but they really do want to keep the ER positions as much as possible.
As for the thought that we are waiting to add positions post SOC to the DAL-N operations, so there are slots for DAL guys, that is a bunch of bull. DAL is probably going to go at the base realignment a little slower. That may be good for some and bad for others. In the end, it is what it is.
As for the JV TA, what do ya think?......
As for the thought that we are waiting to add positions post SOC to the DAL-N operations, so there are slots for DAL guys, that is a bunch of bull. DAL is probably going to go at the base realignment a little slower. That may be good for some and bad for others. In the end, it is what it is.
As for the JV TA, what do ya think?......
07-25-2009, 05:04 AM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
As for the JV TA, what do ya think?......
I think it looks good, but I only read the Negotiators Notepad & would like to see the details. Is the TA itself available to us yet?
ACL,
What do you think?
07-25-2009, 05:14 AM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by johnso29
I think it looks good, but I only read the Negotiators Notepad & would like to see the details. Is the TA itself available to us yet?
ACL,
What do you think?
ACL,
What do you think?
07-25-2009, 05:46 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by johnso29
I think it looks good, but I only read the Negotiators Notepad & would like to see the details. Is the TA itself available to us yet?
ACL,
What do you think?
ACL,
What do you think?
07-25-2009, 07:01 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
Believe we are limited to 120 ETOPS with a gen inop...don't think that will be changing anytime soon.
07-25-2009, 07:27 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
iceman49,
I believe you are correct. It's limited by the MEL to 120 min on the ER. I lost a generator going over to Hawaii awhile ago. We looked in the MEL and it was limited to 120 min. They had to replace it since all Hawaii is 180 min ETOPS. I hear it turned into a PITA.
Denny
I believe you are correct. It's limited by the MEL to 120 min on the ER. I lost a generator going over to Hawaii awhile ago. We looked in the MEL and it was limited to 120 min. They had to replace it since all Hawaii is 180 min ETOPS. I hear it turned into a PITA.
Denny
07-25-2009, 08:47 AM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
Not to stop a good rant, but the CROT is covered in Section 16 C of your contract. Give it a read and see that the procedure followed was the one approved by both MEC's and both pilot groups. They have been talking about the crew rest seat on the A330 for six months now and I would bet a million dollars that the MEC has been briefed many times about the issue.
Before you go on a public rant, it might help your credibility if you just bothered to open your contract and read it. It took me all of 2 minutes to find Section 16 - Crew Augmentation and International Operation and read down to the bottom of page 1 and find Section C - On Board Crew Rest Accomodations.
Edit to ask one more question. Can an A-330 go ETOPS with an MCO that requires the APU to be running in flight? I am not sure you can launch an ETOPS flight with an inop generator.
Before you go on a public rant, it might help your credibility if you just bothered to open your contract and read it. It took me all of 2 minutes to find Section 16 - Crew Augmentation and International Operation and read down to the bottom of page 1 and find Section C - On Board Crew Rest Accomodations.
Edit to ask one more question. Can an A-330 go ETOPS with an MCO that requires the APU to be running in flight? I am not sure you can launch an ETOPS flight with an inop generator.
My original comment to Sailingfun is still valid as my reps told me they were briefed on this ONCE at the March MEC meeting and did not hear anything else until the agreement was final. There was no input from the DAL-N reps that actually fly the A330 between March and last weeks MEC meeting, when it was too late. The deal was sealed solely by LM on the DALPA side. This is a very bad way of doing contract modifications and Sailingfun's statement is incorrect.
Thanks for removing a jumpseat, LM.
ETOPS 120 is authorized with generator inop and the APU must be left running for the entire flight with an appropriate fuel penalty (it's really small). When this mod is complete, the existing bunk facility will be gone so a 3 or 4 pilot crew will have to use the bulk facility for rest breaks. It common for ETOPS 120 trips to Asia to be less than 12 hours and greater than 8 hours using NOPAC routes. It is conceivable that you could exceed 12 hours flight time using ETOPS 120 depending on the route flown.
07-25-2009, 08:47 AM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
iceman49,
I believe you are correct. It's limited by the MEL to 120 min on the ER. I lost a generator going over to Hawaii awhile ago. We looked in the MEL and it was limited to 120 min. They had to replace it since all Hawaii is 180 min ETOPS. I hear it turned into a PITA.
Denny
I believe you are correct. It's limited by the MEL to 120 min on the ER. I lost a generator going over to Hawaii awhile ago. We looked in the MEL and it was limited to 120 min. They had to replace it since all Hawaii is 180 min ETOPS. I hear it turned into a PITA.
Denny
07-25-2009, 09:05 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Bigflya
If its like the ER then its the bulk cargo bin back in the tail. But its most likely between the two largest ladies on the jet. "Pillows! Those aren't pillows."
Carl
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