Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-27-2009, 03:35 PM
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B-7ER JFK
Posts: 931
Originally Posted by INAV8OR
OK, I am bitting on this bait. First of all I have never been associated with a group that holds grudges as long as Pilots do. Get over it, I can see it now 30 yrs from now when I am sitting as a Ca at age 64, NOT, and looking at my JAFO- Just a F'in Observer, and listening to them **** about how the merger went down in '08. I was at Comair during that time in during the furloughs and Daddy D and during our strike. The hiring of DAL guys was not banned, all the DAL guy had to do is give up his # and say I am a Comair pilot, just like I would have to do if I went to DAL. Also, do not quote me on this but does it not say somewhere in the bowels of the ALPA by-laws that if a pilot goes from one ALPA carrier to another ALPA carrier they must resign their number. Also, when we went on strike, sure the DAL guys would walk with us, even share a strike center with us. However, when you guys walked with us it was all about DAL and you guys wanting a contract. Then when you signed your record deal, we lost all support. I am a Delta North guy plus a former comair guy. I forsee lots of idle time or quiet time in the flight deck. So, those are my cents and I will never talk of them again....
07-27-2009, 03:38 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by FlyingViking
This must be the definition of ignorance followed by stupidity.
07-27-2009, 03:54 PM
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B-7ER JFK
Posts: 931
Originally Posted by tsquare
OR... somebody forgot to logoff in the pilot lounge.
LOL...
That could be it, hard to believe otherwise...
07-27-2009, 04:22 PM
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,880
Originally Posted by INAV8OR
OK, I am bitting on this bait. First of all I have never been associated with a group that holds grudges as long as Pilots do. Get over it, I can see it now 30 yrs from now when I am sitting as a Ca at age 64, NOT, and looking at my JAFO- Just a F'in Observer, and listening to them **** about how the merger went down in '08. I was at Comair during that time in during the furloughs and Daddy D and during our strike. The hiring of DAL guys was not banned, all the DAL guy had to do is give up his # and say I am a Comair pilot, just like I would have to do if I went to DAL. Also, do not quote me on this but does it not say somewhere in the bowels of the ALPA by-laws that if a pilot goes from one ALPA carrier to another ALPA carrier they must resign their number. Also, when we went on strike, sure the DAL guys would walk with us, even share a strike center with us. However, when you guys walked with us it was all about DAL and you guys wanting a contract. Then when you signed your record deal, we lost all support. I am a Delta North guy plus a former comair guy. I forsee lots of idle time or quiet time in the flight deck. So, those are my cents and I will never talk of them again....
Guys,
First of all – lets keep it civil, there is no need for name calling or personal attacks. There is nothing wrong with guys having different opinions.
I am not talking about holding a grudge – what happened is history, and although we can not change it, we should learn from it. If we just ignore the way DAL Pilots were treated, is there any disincentive for other Pilot groups to try this approach again? How would you feel if you are furloughed next year and XXX airlines tries the same thing, this time DALPA concedes and gives up Scope regarding the 100 seat jet, just so you cab get a job offer – but now you are furloughed for 10 Years – but hey, you have a job at XXX airlines if you resign your seniority. I don’t think too many junior guys would be too eager to sign up for that deal.
For all the guys apologizing for the Comair union, I have one question – How then, did ASA do it? Both were owned by Delta. ASA took care of DAL guys and did not require seniority resignation. Ownership and management were obviously not the deciding factor, the Pilots Union was. The Pilot unions took different approaches which yielded different results. Also, don’t forget when DAL started hiring again, all these seemingly insurmountable obstacles quickly disappeared. Think about this carefully and then come to your own conclusion.
If you read my post closely you see I refer to the Comair Pilot Union not the Comair Pilots, although to a degree they are one and the same. DAL Pilots were hurting, Comair was hiring like crazy and JC Lawson and the Union boys tried to extract concessions from the DALPA Pilots on Scope, Seniority integration etc. This is wrong – it is a not what members of the same union should be doing to each other. And to the guys saying when our contract was signed we stopped supporting Comair, this is just not true, I have the pay stubs to support it.
Finally, we should remember Pilots are individuals and should be treated as such. Obviously any Comair pilots who were not on the property at the time have no culpability whatsoever. To the Comair guys who were there I would ask “How do you feel about the whole situation?” Who spoke up against this policy and what attempts were made to have it stopped? The Comair union might have had plausibility deniabilityfor any responsibility (although I doubt it) right up to the point DAL started hiring and the Comair union said, “Hey, about the preferential hiring for DAL guys, we are ready to get onboard. That incident lit up the DAL forums pretty brightly for a few weeks.
Scoop
Last edited by Scoop; 07-27-2009 at 04:33 PM.
07-27-2009, 04:49 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,324
Originally Posted by BlueMoon
There are many of us here now, that were not here when this went down. Don't paint us all with one broad stroke.
Going in knowing the score and complaining afterward is a little disingenuous.
07-27-2009, 04:50 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by INAV8OR
The hiring of DAL guys was not banned, all the DAL guy had to do is give up his # and say I am a Comair pilot, just like I would have to do if I went to DAL.
Comair is an entry level position toward flying for the big boys. I flew heavies internationally for 20 years to get to DAL. RJ guys are big on "career expectations." Let me tell you what mine are (were). It ain't to fly little jets from CVG to CLE or whatever little bum-******* place you guys go.
Aviation is a legacy career. You can't skip to the top. When you and your company **** on those in more senior positions, you risk being put smartly back in your place. I really like most of the Comair guys that I chat with in my jumpseat. But, please, don't imply that your experience or hardships are like mine. They aren't. Comair had a chance to really endear itself to the senior carrier who was furloughing more senior pilots. They chose not to. Accept it, and move on.
07-27-2009, 05:48 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 3,032
Originally Posted by capncrunch
True, but let me ask you this....If your partner $hits the bed and you knowingly hop in, can you really complain when you get poo on you? Anyone who wants to get on with Delta knows full well their odds go to almost nill if they fly for Comair.
Going in knowing the score and complaining afterward is a little disingenuous.
Going in knowing the score and complaining afterward is a little disingenuous.
Anyways last post on the subject for me as this topic has hi-jacked the thread. Best of Luck
07-27-2009, 05:54 PM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
how about we get back to the juicy rumors? anyone?
*crickets*
*crickets*
07-27-2009, 06:07 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: atl fo
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by buzzpat
Comair is an entry level position toward flying for the big boys. I flew heavies internationally for 20 years to get to DAL. RJ guys are big on "career expectations." Let me tell you what mine are (were). It ain't to fly little jets from CVG to CLE or whatever little bum-******* place you guys go.
holy EGO batman!
I have no bone in this, but sometimes a little class and modesty can do wonders for your respectability.
07-27-2009, 06:11 PM
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 757 Left
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by BlueMoon
Well I agree, but that also assumes this is common knowledge to someone looking for a job. The relationship between DALPA and OHALPA was not something I looked at when doing research and I would guess that most other people are them same (I very well could be wrong). All I knew is I would be required to resign my seniority number (Mesaba was the same way, so I didn't think much of it at the time as it was my first airline gig). Live and Learn
Anyways last post on the subject for me as this topic has hi-jacked the thread. Best of Luck
Anyways last post on the subject for me as this topic has hi-jacked the thread. Best of Luck
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