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Originally Posted by dragon
(Post 1265588)
Slow,
The real talking point here is the TA shouldn't have been TA'd in the first place since it didn't meet the MEC's direction. And once it was TA'd, the MEC should have sent it back. However, I do know that the very real problem for the MEC was if they didn't give it to the pilots, there would have been he!! to pay, since we all know the type of control freaks most of us are. The junior guys who voted against the TA are upset because we were right, while I do get paid more now, we gave up jobs! We were sold a bill of goods by a feckless MEC that cannot or will not stand up for the jobs it is supposed to protect. 94% of the pilots voted. 62% voted in favor. The MEC voted 14-5 in favor of a TA produced by their unanimously elected Negotiating Committee. The rest of your post is an acknowledgement of our control freakish nature.;) feckless...really? |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1265582)
Oh well if we're going to play this game, what would have happened had we not passed the TA in June?
Well, we'd probably have gotten a contract by the end of August. |
Slow, did you even read what I wrote? Fact, the Skywest pilots were suckered into dealing brad his ace. The planes were already ordered. We fell for the same tactic. Fact, I'm happy with my no vote AND I'm happy that the TA passed. Gee, how can that be? Maybe I'm not that far off in my beliefs with you? Opinion, you can't see that we gave up more than we should have in work rules. Fact, at my seniority im living with the work rule changes. Fact, anyone can cite what you posted above to support their cause. Good for you but some of that happened after the TA passed....I think. Fact, no one really knows what would've happened with a no vote. That's right, you don't know. Nice. Fact, it was delta management that told ALPA they had a plan B. ALPA then forwarded managements negotiating scare tactic on to the pilot group. ALPA actually helped management. Who needs Ford & Harrison as consultants when ALPA does all the work for them. I want to look at the TA and decide for myself. I don't need to be sold a TA. Oh yeah, fact, spirit turned down their deal, it got better.
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Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1265599)
What year?
sorry august 2012. |
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 1265578)
PCIEE FO CKAE !
Wow! I've seen this with the letters out of order, but this is the first time I've seen it with numbers. Good example of a Brain Study: If you can read this OUT LOUD you have a strong mind. And better than that: Alzheimer’s is a long, long, ways down the road before it ever gets anywhere near you. 7H15 M3554G3 > 53RV35 7O PR0V3 > H0W 0UR M1ND5 C4N > D0 4M4Z1NG 7H1NG5! > 1MPR3551V3 7H1NG5! > 1N 7H3 B3G1NN1NG > 17 WA5 H4RD BU7 > N0W, 0N 7H15 LIN3 > Y0UR M1ND 1S > R34D1NG 17 > 4U70M471C4LLY > W17H 0U7 3V3N > 7H1NK1NG 4B0U7 17, > B3 PROUD! 0NLY > C3R741N P30PL3 C4N > R3AD 7H15. > PL3453 F0RW4RD 1F > U C4N R34D 7H15. > > To my 'selected' strange-minded friends: > > > If you can read the following paragraph, forward it on to your friends and the person that sent it to you with 'yes' in the subject line. Only great minds can read this. This is weird, but interesting! > > If you can raed this, you have a sgtrane mnid, too. > > Can you raed this? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can. I cdnuolt blveiee that I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd what I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in what oerdr the ltteres in a word are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is that the frsit and last ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can still raed it whotuit a pboerlm. This is bcuseaethe huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the word as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! If you can raed this forwrad it > > FORWARD ONLY IF YOU CAN READ IT > Forward it & put 'YES' in the Subject Line > > Even if you are not old, you will find this interesting... > > > Short Neurological Test > > 1- Find the C below.. Please do not use any cursor help. > > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCOOOOOOOOOOO > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > > 2- If you already found the C, now find the 6 below. > > 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 > 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 > 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 > 69999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 > 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 > 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 > > 3 - Now find the N below.. It's a little more difficult. > > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMNMM > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM > MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM > > This is NOT a joke. If you were able to pass these 3 tests, you can cancel your annual visit to your neurologist. Your brain is great and you're far from having a close relationship with Alzheimer.. You do know you are junior to me. Thanks. I passed the test with no problems. Now, I can stick around to 65. :p |
Originally Posted by slowplay
(Post 1265595)
The real talking point here is that your position was in the minority.
94% of the pilots voted. 62% voted in favor. The MEC voted 14-5 in favor of a TA produced by their unanimously elected Negotiating Committee. The rest of your post is an acknowledgement of our control freakish nature.;) feckless...really? As defined feckless is:feck·less/ˈfeklis/ Adjective: (of a person) Lacking in efficiency or vitality. Unthinking and irresponsible. DAL hasn't met a TA it didn't like and I've seen the incredibly good job the MEC does selling its decisions to the members. They knew it would be passed, the average guy just wants to fly his trips and go home being left alone. There are some that want to do more and some that want to be in charge of more than just themselves. Feckless as I used it was to the point that getting something done fast was more important than doing something good for the long term. I know my position was in the minority and that's the great thing about democracy. Just because I was out voted doesn't reduce the validity of the arguments. |
Originally Posted by slowplay
(Post 1265580)
Do you have any facts or recent history to support your position, or are you playing to your co-workers that are bigger suckers than those dumb rj pilots?
Here's some recent examples: AFA at USAirways turned down their deal...it got worse. USAPA's governing body turned down their deal, and it got worse. While the final story hasn't been written, APA turned down their deal, and it got worse. So in your world the "right" answer was to turn down the June 29 deal. You'd now be negotiating in an environment where AMR has 88 seat RJ scope (only using 79 seats at this time) imposed by the court. Nice. You assert that the B717 were coming anyway, even though Delta management and ALPA told you there was a plan B. Isn't it strange that a Delta competitor "found" about half the number of used amall narrowbodies on the open market just a few short weeks after the TA was ratified. Or how about the capacity math that doesn't work for delivery of all 88 B717s without the deal? You trying to "sucker" somebody?:rolleyes: ALPA is however a grassroots organization founded on unity and is a representational democracy. IMHO those who represent our union should be very careful not to criticize, or attack, the very pilots they are duty bound to protect. Is that unfair? Sure it is. It comes with the territory of serving as a fiduciary where others interests are placed above your own. Besides, the facts being as they are, truth will be brought to light simply by patiently waiting for its discovery. Along those lines Delta hasn't publicly announced deals yet which utilize the additional 76 seat jets allowed by the TA. Little tidbits on debt restructuring have come from unexpected sources, like Emirates' complaints of Delta's own ~4+ Billion dollar transactions with the import/export facilities in Brazil and Canada. There have also been unconfirmed reports that Bastian has stated our debt about 3 billion lower than earlier guidance. But the Bastian report is nonsensical without a transaction. You must enjoy watching us guess. Several representatives have opined that the agreed process was not followed and they were unable to represent the direction provided by their pilots. In my mind that dustup was resolved when the MEC, as a body, voted to send the agreement to the pilots. But, we probably should have had another round at some non pecuniary clean ups in Section 1, like the Republic carve out. Also, does the AF/KLM JV really need a three year window? The point of this meandering post is somewhat rhetorical, but, was an autocratic cram down really necessary, or could a more open process served just as well without alienating ALPA supporters? P.S. ... and I thank you for taking the time to be here. The conversation on this board is much more intelligent with your input, even if you blast away at me from time to time. |
Originally Posted by orvil
(Post 1265611)
Hey Scambo1,
You do know you are junior to me. Thanks. I passed the test with no problems. Now, I can stick around to 65. :p You may leave now.:D |
Alors le iPad est arrivé (pour les pilotes qualifiés sur Boeing 777):
http://www.journal-aviation.com/actu...0924160108.jpg Les pilotes d'Air France s'équipent de l'iPad d'Apple Cheers George |
Originally Posted by orvil
(Post 1265611)
Hey Scambo1,
You do know you are junior to me. Thanks. I passed the test with no problems. Now, I can stick around to 65. :p |
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