Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? - Page 11436

#114351

Bucking Bar , 11-02-2012 06:05 PM

Can't abide NAI

Technical question. Is that the new iPhone 3 ?

Never mind, that'll jet get me in trouble. What happened to Fridays around this place?

#114352

Timbo , 11-02-2012 06:10 PM

Runs with scissors

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

Technical question. Is that the new iPhone 3 ?

Never mind, that'll jet get me in trouble. What happened to Fridays around this place?

Those Nazi Mods banned Jessie!

FREE JESSIE!

Oh, and here's more Zen wisdom for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U264A...ture=endscreen

#114353

Scoop , 11-02-2012 06:11 PM

Super Moderator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny Crane

Okay, it seems to me that this part of our scope clause would apply to the Alaska SEA to SLC flights:

3. The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub.
Exception one: The DL code may be placed on AS flight segments to or from LAX, subject to Section 1 O. 2. Any such flight segments between LAX and an Alaska hub will be included in the calculations in Section 1 O. 3. Exception two.

The rest talks about exceptions on hub to hub flights which these are not because SEA is not a "hub."

The way I read it, it seems pretty clear that Delta cannot place it's code on these flights because SLC is a Delta hub.

Denny

Edit: Now that I think about it, the Alaska SEA to ATL flight(s) are in the same boat. Do we allow our code on these flights????????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane

I've got to bump this and ask Slowplay or Alfa, with the above wording in the contract, if Delta can put it's code on these Alaska SEA to SLC flights? If so, where does it say so? Thanks

Denny

Great Question Denny.

Scoop

#114354

johnso29 , 11-02-2012 06:19 PM

Moderator

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cycle Pilot

Hey, guys. AE question here... I'm a line holder on the 320 in NYC. If I get knocked down to reserve during this bid, I'd rather just bid over to the 7ER. Is there a way to specify this on my AE or VD bid?

Well if you VD you will incur a 2 yr freeze, and you will only hold what the seniority of the person you are saving from a MD will hold. Of course considering the seniority number of the most junior NYC 7ERB, that's probably not an issue.

I think if you want to protect yourself you AE NYC 320B @ a percentage(ex-NYC 320B 75%), then AE NYC 7ERB. Then VD NYC 7ERB. As always, you could contact DALPA for the best advice.

#114355

johnso29 , 11-02-2012 06:22 PM

Moderator

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane

I've got to bump this and ask Slowplay or Alfa, with the above wording in the contract, if Delta can put it's code on these Alaska SEA to SLC flights? If so, where does it say so? Thanks

Denny

Denny, I think this post will answer your question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Well before we get into another thrash about Alaska, let's remember one thing. Neither Delta nor Alaska have any control about where each other flies. Our contract does not have any restrictions on where Alaska flies. Can you imagine the outrage at Delta if the Alaska pilots tried to negotiate restrictions on which markets Delta could serve?

What we do have in our contract is restriction on where Delta can place their code. In this case Delta is allowed to place our code on Alaska flights with restrictions. These include:

Limits on the number and/or percentage of seats on any market that can have Delta code

A 4 to 1 hub to hub ratio, meaning for every 1 flight that Alaska has Delta code on between Seattle and a Delta hub, Delta has to have 4 flights with Alaska code on in the same market

This is a pro-rate code share. That means that you share the revenue based on how far the passenger traveled on YOUR METAL

Go back and read #3 again. If someone tries to tell you that Delta can make money on Alaska coded flights without them traveling on a Delta airplane, they are flat out wrong. Delta cannot just sell tickets on Alaska flights and make money. A pro rate is based on miles flown, if you fly 0 miles your share of the revenue is $0. Every time you think that Delta is outsourcing flying to Alaska, just remember this, 0 miles = $0.

So Alaska can add a flight from SLC to SEA, they can add 100 and Delta has no say about it. If Delta places code on ONE Alaska flight, then there must be FOUR Delta flights with Alaska code. Delta cannot replace SLC-SEA with Alaska flights, Delta has to grow on a four to one ratio.

The average amount of passengers that are in any one market on Alaska flights is 9. Does anyone have any idea on which Delta aircraft would serve a market with 9 passengers? Those 9 passengers on multiple flights collect in Seattle and then we fly them west to Beijing, Narita, etc. We just added another flight (Shanghai) and are trying to add Haneda. Without this code share, the Seattle international operation would crater. Someone should at least point out that the size of the Seattle base has doubled since the merger.

Here is the problem. From 2007-2012, US air traffic has shrunk by over 10%. Yes shrunk, that is not inflation adjusted or any other type of adjustment, that is an actual 10% shrinkage. Slightly before the merger, in July 2008,, Delta and Northwest together had 10,826 pilots in category, i.e. flying the line. In July 2012 we had 10,644. That is a reduction of 1%. If we had a reduction of 10% to match the drop in traffic then that number should have been 9,743.

Delta has also upgauged their own fleet. How may 160 seat MD-90's does it take to replace 5 100 seat DC-9's? 3. So when you add that up, there should have been a larger drop below 9,700. The reason why Delta has not shrunk our pilot force by 10% is that almost all their drop in capacity has come from the regional carriers. We have lost over 200 aircraft and that number is increasing. Delta has increasingly stolen high dollar market share from UAL, AMR, and LCC and also aggressively increased their charter market share which has saved a lot of our jobs. UAL, AMR, and LCC are all much, much smaller than they were in 2008.

So I can understand everyone's dismay at their lack of progression. Global air traffic has declined based on a near doubling of fuel prices and a global recession. That is what has caused the lack of progression and nothing else. Evidence is pretty strong that without this merger, the individual carriers (DAL/NWA) would have been hit much more deeply.

Every single statistic that DALPA has produced has shown that the Alaska code share has benefited Delta pilots more than Alaska pilots. Essentially, everyone's response has been, don't confuse me with facts I have my opinion. Don't blame your lack of progression on Alaska, it is the drop in global traffic.

There are two market in the US that support two airline hubs: Chicago and New York. Seattle is a great city but it is not in the economic or population class as Chicago and New York. There is no possible way to support two hubs in Seattle. So Delta has a choice: they can try to get into a market share war in Seattle and try to drive Alaska out of business, or they can take advantage of their code share to drive passengers into our international markets from Seattle and grow that way. Which event is more likely to occur, and which event is more likely to result in success for Delta pilots' careers? Does anyone really want to get into a hub war with Alaska right now?

So yes, I will tell you unreservedly that the Alaska code share is good for Delta pilots and helps our careers. The facts are clear and unambiguous. If you are looking for a scape goat on why you haven't progressed you can blame it on Bush or Obama or the Chinese or the bankers or the rich or the poor, or whatever target suits you. Blaming it on the Alaska code share is just wrong headed. Get rid of the Alaska code share and high paying Delta international jobs will go away. Period. If you think we will win a hub war in Seattle you are smoking dope.

#114356

forgot to bid , 11-02-2012 07:34 PM

veut gagner à la loterie

For Tsquare, I'm trying to find a picture of Tebows girlfriend for you. The only picture I can find she's in a small bikini and I'm only going to post trench coats and turtleneck sweaters as long as they're loose fitting.

I'll post once I find a suitable picture.

#114357

80ktsClamp , 11-02-2012 07:41 PM

Da Hudge

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

Excellent advice, johnso.

I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do. I really hope the CA positions in ATL absorb the widebody landslide (again).

#114358

mmaviator , 11-02-2012 08:36 PM

pants on the ground

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

this is a picture of her in college I THINK.....

#114359

Denny Crane , 11-02-2012 10:58 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

Denny, I think this post will answer your question.

I read that and here is where I run into a problem with it. Alfa says: "A 4 to 1 hub to hub ratio, meaning for every 1 flight that Alaska has Delta code on between Seattle and a Delta hub, Delta has to have 4 flights with Alaska code on in the same market."

The statement is incorrect as far as SEA to SLC flights are concerned. These flights are NOT hub to hub. Seattle is not a Delta hub whereas Salt Lake City is a Delta hub. This is clearly stated in the contract. When I looked up our scope clause, section 1. O. 3. it says: The DL code will not be placed on AS flight segments to or from a Delta hub. There are exceptions listed after this but, as far as I can tell, they are for hub to hub flights not a non hub (Seattle) to a hub (SLC).

Of course I'm not a lawyer so it probably does say it some where I just cannot figure out where......

I must be reading the exceptions wrong, I just cannot figure out how. They all talk about hub to hub flights.....

Denny

#114360

Denny Crane , 11-02-2012 11:05 PM

Gets Weekends Off

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

Well if you VD you will incur a 2 yr freeze, and you will only hold what the seniority of the person you are saving from a MD will hold. Of course considering the seniority number of the most junior NYC 7ERB, that's probably not an issue.

I think if you want to protect yourself you AE NYC 320B @ a percentage(ex-NYC 320B 75%), then AE NYC 7ERB. Then VD NYC 7ERB. As always, you could contact DALPA for the best advice.

A little clarification here. On a VD you use the seniority of the pilot who would have been MD'd to get into the category you want but once you get in the category via the VD you exercise your seniority.

Denny