Bucking Bar

Ab-Inito programs typically have a high wash out rate. ALPA would not touch it. Back when ASA and Comair were doing the pay for training programs, the applicants were not hired until after they passed the Type / Checkride. If I am not mistaken SWA at one time required the 737 Type. I doubt "Delta" would hire an ab-inito pilot. Even the Delta scholarships had Delta hire the applicant into a job at a regional airline (which is an interesting point in itself ... Delta actually hired ASA and Comair pilots on several occasions in the Company's history)

We should require our outsourced flying be performed by ALPA members and the Compass guys should have been given seniority numbers, IMHO. Before we jump in to represent non-pilots, we should be representing our regional partners.

Boomer

Then watch the Compass applications triple overnight.

gloopy

While I understand your intent with that, honestly it wouldn't change a thing. There will always always always be ALPA outsource providers willing to undercut ALPA outsource providers. Not only for growth, but for status quo and to prevent downsizing or the threats of liquidation. Even during good times and even mid contract.

Now I know theoretically ALPA national will refuse signature until a high cost contract is signed, etc. but we have to come to grips with the realization that it will simply never happen because the only reason for the flying be off list to begin with is because its cheaper and kept cheaper from the endless RFP back stabbing low ball bidding process. ALPA can't prevent that from happening by allowing it to happen.

The only solution is to bring the pilot positions directly to the mainline pilot seniority list and CBA. Anything else is putting bacon on the lipstick.

Bucking Bar

Completely agreed on both points.

I wonder if A4A will change its tune when airlines like Delta pick up the phone. I know I'm cheaper than a 30 year Captain and a new hire is cheaper than me. The legacy airlines could use retirements to reduce costs.

gloopy

True, and I hope A4A fights alongside ALPA against any increase in the retirement age (again).

Bucking Bar

Prater fought ... ?

I guess if your consider Jeff Gordon a fighter. ... (and I like Jeff ... good pilot)

IMHO we need a good ol' AJ Foyt style ***** slap.

Rule 1 - Leave the Helmet on, visor down (to avoid the grab and pull)
Rule 2 - Kick 'em in the nuts

BB for ALPA Pres!

Boomer

Another reason for flip-down visors on all pilot hats.

georgetg

Obviously there are some qualified rated pilots...the point is, in many countries abroad, there is no deep pool of qualified rated applicants airlines can reliably draw from, thus the ab-initio programs.

You're right on with the desire of those airlines to produce Lufthansa or ANA pilots from the ground up (ab-initio) because these airlines view their training/standards departments as part of the airlines culture.

Those newhires are being mentored to be line pilots by senior Captains. By the time they hit the line they fit right in because of this mentoring, so to them any previous training is more like a pre-existing condition.

Cheers
George

iceman49

After the demise of IGS, to be hired as a FA...Lufthansa required them to be German citizens perhaps the requirement is the same for pilots.

georgetg

That's simply not the case if the screening is done right...
ANAs training is even an ISO 9001 certified process with washout rates well below 1:100.

Agree completely about your sentiments on representing the existing DCI pilots, but there is a difference between a pilot hired by an outsourced company and a pilot hired by Delta and placed with a regional as part of a seniority agreement.

In the end the benefit of a national union is to get everybody on the same page and work towards a shared goal. With some notable exceptions, many of the current crop of regional pilots applied at their carrier as part of a career step towards working for a major airline.

By incentivizing ALPA represented regional carriers with preferred hiring/interviews, we provide a carrot to prospective pilots to choose an ALPA represented regional.

It is in ALPAs interest to expand that incentive.
So long as ALPA is our bargaining agent having ALPA succeed is beneficial for Delta pilots.
Having a "race to the bottom" among regionals is not in Delta pilots interest, even if it "saves Delta money."

Cheers
George