Scoop

Carl,
Are you sure about that? It seems to me management threw all of the employees to the wolves.

Scoop

newKnow

Scoop,

That goes without saying. We worked for Northwest after all...

iceman49

Currious as to how you think that the DL guy hired in the same time frame did so much better? Specifically what are the complaints you've heard from your friends and classmates that was hired onto the North side? After 6 airlines, 1 bankruptcy, 2 furloughs...I may have a different opinion. Oh by the way I do believe in strong scope, I think Compass should be on the list; I think NW was the last to get the B scale, and got rid of it through a strike.

newKnow

Hawaii should keep in mind that those 98-99 guys were about to do some serious catching up when the Northside retirements kicked in. And no, this is not meant to bring up the SLI discussion again.

alfaromeo

Okay, let's imagine that whatever scope clause you want to negotiate for has been agreed to in principle by management. Now you have to come up with a way to implement the change. How do you see that going?

Do you think that Delta would sign an agreement on Tuesday and then on Wednesday all those pilots at CMR, ASA, etc. would be out of a job and then Delta would have to hire a few thousand pilots in one day?

Or maybe, do you think there would be a transition period where we eventually add these pilots to our seniority list? During this transition period would it be likely that you would have to:

Harmonize their work rules, pay, bidding, etc.
Harmonize their contractual pay and benefits
Establish the seniority amongst the group to be integrated, i.e. where would Compass pilots be in relation to CMR pilots and so on and so on
Establish an integration method amongst the two groups (Delta and connection)
Establish a flow up/down agreement for the interim time until the rest could be worked out

I am interested in hearing how you would accomplish this transition. I am also interested in your opinion that if you start to accomplish some of these goals ahead of the negotiations, would it actually make the scope negotiations easier to get to your vision of the perfect scope language.

It is one thing to have problems and another to have solutions. You are good at articulating your problems. Clearly, you have to understand that any solution to your problem is much deeper than "Get me better scope." Finally, is it possible that people are trying to work on solutions to your problems right now, but you can't even recognize it?

Nopac

Yes, this is true, but when we're talking about reducing labor costs to mitigate the furloughs, this was an easy target. Let's face it: 2nd Captain augmentation is a nice way to increase overall pilot pay when times are good, but an easy target when the airline is contracting. Paying for an extra captain to snooze his way across the pond while there are junior pilots are on furlough would be a very bad thing, IMO.

I was furloughed twice between 2003 and 2006, and one of the great things about this merger is that now I won't ever have to worry about my union trading work rules and pay to "save the pension" again. So that's nice.

acl65pilot

All great questions, and IF the Committees of DALPA are working on this, these single issue DOLTS may quiet down if there was actually communication from our leadership. Communication that stated that these are the issues, this is the goal and we are working on a solution to get from point A to B. Instead we are getting almost nothing in the way of communications.
Like I stated previously, if there was communication, that this is a front burner issue, maybe the cries for change would not be a loud or annoying.

Also, how do you explain that three of the individuals that will be running this fall all work quite closely with the MEC on a myriad of issues, and all of them say that they can no longer sit by and watch us continue down this path. That tells me that they are upset enough to become part of the MEC.

Nopac

Yeah, but Steenland kept shrinking the airline. I've "moved up" 2000 numbers in the last ten years, but I'm still down towards the bottom of the list. Retirements don't mean much if the airline is getting smaller.

Bucking Bar

Alpha, my version of a road map has been put down here several times, but I don't mind a bit laying it out again:

The Dude's steps to scope restoration -

• Begin with a candid evaluation, including economic analysis of what has worked and what has failed in previous scope negotiations.
• Follow up with economic analysis of the benefits of unity. See what value there is in unity, putting this in cold hard economic terms.
• Begin with small steps, like the 300 pilots at Compass while our MEC still represents both groups. Move them over in flow order, accepting status quo on their contract (if need be) to signal ALPA's policy reversal on outsourcing. (or throw a bone to the senior guys and get them a buck an hour earned through the 14 extra seats on the outsourced jets brought back to mainline). If not already accomplished, this step should be triggered with the first Delta pilot being displaced to Compass. IMHO the Delta MEC owes this to the Delta pilots they represent.
• Concomitant with bringing Compass (or anyone else) on board, the corresponding scope hole would have to be closed (management says they do not want any more 76 seaters anyway). In the case of Compass, their special scope allowance would be removed and the fleet ratio triggers be reset by reducing outsourced jets and increasing mainline jets in the same number.
• Then aggressively investigate the alleged scope violations at Republic. Insist that there is only one answer to management's intentional violation of our agreement and that is to abide by our agreement by staffing those jets with mainline pilots.

Those would be the first couple of steps which don't cost the senior pilots anything.

From there the road map depends a lot on our ALPA Reps and I'm not going to presume to know how the 8 other DCI carriers are going to sort themselves out. We represent the Compass pilots, but no other DCI carrier and do not have authority to speak for them.

But, I envision that if they see a real benefit to ALPA unity, they will have a strong desire to get on board and ultimately the Delta MEC retains control of that process. We will have set a precedent of success that can be built on.

Unity is a much stronger force than our current ALPA leadership recognizes.That is an excellent question. I have to answer that if they are seeking a solution, they have flat out lied to throw us off track and if they are seeking a solution it would be a 180 degree course reversal from ALPA policy since the days that Randall Babbitt was at Eastern.

What is more likely is that our Reps are being honest and that they continue down the same misguided path that got us into this mess. All flow throughs do is legitimize outsourcing. They are no substitute for real job protection, or unity.

If we do not take the first baby step of getting Compass on board the flow through will simply act like a turd in the toilet. It might hold back the flush for a minute, but eventually the pressure will build until the turd goes down at a higher velocity carrying more water in its wake.

Worse, I fear ALPA will facilitate simply spinning Compass off while finding a way to cancel the flow agreement, in doing so unplugging the current blockage all while getting nothing substantial in return.

After all, if we refuse to perform an economic analysis of Compass's value, how do we know what it is worth when we sell it back to management?

We have to perform steps one and two of my road map, regardless.

sinca3

Yeah and get ready for more of the same!
JMHO