Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-24-2013, 05:07 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by TenYearsGone
DOH October 1972. I dont know if he was a scab or not.
TEN
TEN
04-24-2013, 05:13 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
41 years... and still on the 737. Why would someone subject themselves to that??
GF
04-24-2013, 05:30 PM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
Originally Posted by scambo1
This is not a defense of scabs:
My understanding of the CAL scab situation is that there were true picket line crossing scabs who crossed early. Then there were scabs that fought the good fight, lost everything and crossed much later (a year or more) to put food on the table. Then there was a third group who were told by ALPA - at some level- MEC, LEC or some other level to return to work and they were labeled scabs as well.
I don't know many CAL pilots except a hunting buddy. He says CAL pilots generally made peace with their scabs (in at least the 2 later groups).
When I was at UAL, there was no peace made with the scabs. It was wierd for a fresh off AD guy (me) to deal with it, mostly because the whole (union/airline) thing was so new to me.
Today, with codeshares and sub-contractors, some union and some non-union, it seems to me that flying struck work is a very cloudy picture - to be taken on a flight-by-flight basis. Even then it is unclear to me how to tell if someone is flying struck work.
My understanding of the CAL scab situation is that there were true picket line crossing scabs who crossed early. Then there were scabs that fought the good fight, lost everything and crossed much later (a year or more) to put food on the table. Then there was a third group who were told by ALPA - at some level- MEC, LEC or some other level to return to work and they were labeled scabs as well.
I don't know many CAL pilots except a hunting buddy. He says CAL pilots generally made peace with their scabs (in at least the 2 later groups).
When I was at UAL, there was no peace made with the scabs. It was wierd for a fresh off AD guy (me) to deal with it, mostly because the whole (union/airline) thing was so new to me.
Today, with codeshares and sub-contractors, some union and some non-union, it seems to me that flying struck work is a very cloudy picture - to be taken on a flight-by-flight basis. Even then it is unclear to me how to tell if someone is flying struck work.
I think that's exactly how Management wants it, so it's 'unclear' to us who is flying struck work, which basically makes a Strike completely inefective. That, and they pay the A holes in DC a lot more than we do!
Frank Lorenzo was (is) big buddies with Bush 1. They're both from Houston. Lorenzo was one of his biggest "Campaign Contributors".
Now that "Corporations are People Too"...do you think any jack wad Senator in DC looking for Re Election Contributions is going to vote "Our Way"?
How much money does the A4A give them, vs. ALPA PAC? And how much is Emirates going to give them? I've been an ALPA PAC giver since I was off probation, but I can do simple math. A4A gives about 10X what ALPA PAC gives. Emirates can give 10X that.
I'm thinking Cabotage is coming, and sooner than any of us want to think about. Good thing Delta has about 14 Code Share Partners around the world.
I can see me finishing out my career on the 737 too...
What? Wuzat for us? Hu?
04-24-2013, 05:32 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
Originally Posted by Timbo
Thanks for the edit 80K!
You know when it comes to technology, I'm a comfortably numb caveman!
You know when it comes to technology, I'm a comfortably numb caveman!
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
As soon as I could get my mom to take me to the music store, I bought a Pink Floyd CD. His tone.... just amazing.
BTW, James Taylor describes Dave as "my favorite guitar player." Taylor sets up his Olsons really well too.
04-24-2013, 05:37 PM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
Easy, their hearing is gone!
GF
GF
I hope you get back to MCO soon, or I get up there! Maybe we can divert to BDL on the way to DXB.
Let's see...hmmm....Bradley...that begins with a B, so that's got to be in the Jepp Alternates at...
Windsor Locks!
04-24-2013, 06:24 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
Timbo
Pretty good, just finishing up a SCEL trip, day off there made for a wine tour. Yeah, I have to get to FL soon. It's actually warming up in the Great White North, 70 at BDL today.
GF
Pretty good, just finishing up a SCEL trip, day off there made for a wine tour. Yeah, I have to get to FL soon. It's actually warming up in the Great White North, 70 at BDL today.
GF
04-24-2013, 06:26 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
While we are talking tone. Anyone think this resonates with Richard Anderson's Pinnacle excitement in the Q1 2013 Earnings Call ?
Based on Mr. Anderson's comments Pinnacle's going to be an alter ego of Delta. Before you write your rep to complain consider not a one of them objected to ALPA's actions (previous Reps) and our contract is silent on another pilot group effectively wearing our uniforms (with minor changes), being handled by our agents and even maybe being staffed with Delta Flight Attendants. Behind the cockpit door we all look the same ... just they're a heck of a lot cheaper to pay.
... we really did not need to have this problem in 2015, but I think we are going have to deal with it then. By that time it will have a lot of momentum behind it.
CONTENTIONS
ALPA
ALPA contends that the wholly-owned airline affiliates of
Trans States Holdings, Inc. (TSH), TSA and GoJet, constitute a
single transportation system for representation purposes for
the craft or class of Pilots. ALPA argues that the two Carriers:
share common facilities; have a common main hub; are both
wholly-owned by the same individual, Hulas Kanodia; and have
overlapping management. ALPA additionally asserts that labor
relations at the two Carriers is handled jointly in many
respects as evidenced by the facts that: TSA Pilots were offered
employment at GoJet with pay and longevity based on their
length of service at TSA, up to a maximum of five years; some
Pilots who are currently working for GoJet are still on TSA’s
Pilot seniority list and are officially considered on a “leave of
absence” from TSA; recruitment and issuance of flight passes
are handled by the same persons for both Carriers; and
employees have been hired by one entity and transferred to the
other without additional interviews.
ALPA
ALPA contends that the wholly-owned airline affiliates of
Trans States Holdings, Inc. (TSH), TSA and GoJet, constitute a
single transportation system for representation purposes for
the craft or class of Pilots. ALPA argues that the two Carriers:
share common facilities; have a common main hub; are both
wholly-owned by the same individual, Hulas Kanodia; and have
overlapping management. ALPA additionally asserts that labor
relations at the two Carriers is handled jointly in many
respects as evidenced by the facts that: TSA Pilots were offered
employment at GoJet with pay and longevity based on their
length of service at TSA, up to a maximum of five years; some
Pilots who are currently working for GoJet are still on TSA’s
Pilot seniority list and are officially considered on a “leave of
absence” from TSA; recruitment and issuance of flight passes
are handled by the same persons for both Carriers; and
employees have been hired by one entity and transferred to the
other without additional interviews.
... we really did not need to have this problem in 2015, but I think we are going have to deal with it then. By that time it will have a lot of momentum behind it.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 04-24-2013 at 06:42 PM.
04-24-2013, 06:58 PM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
I still can not believe ALPA allowed another pilot group to do a deal with our management.
2015's goin to be interesting ... but, "RJ's were last decade's problem." Only if you accept that we lost, we are giving up and an RJ seats 100 people and can fly to South America from Atlanta.
2015's goin to be interesting ... but, "RJ's were last decade's problem." Only if you accept that we lost, we are giving up and an RJ seats 100 people and can fly to South America from Atlanta.
I hope they have a long term vision for how all this outsourcing and mainline scope dilution is going to benefit pilots someday. I just wish they would better articulate that vision.
04-24-2013, 07:07 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by scambo1
This is not a defense of scabs:
My understanding of the CAL scab situation is that there were true picket line crossing scabs who crossed early. Then there were scabs that fought the good fight, lost everything and crossed much later (a year or more) to put food on the table. Then there was a third group who were told by ALPA - at some level- MEC, LEC or some other level to return to work and they were labeled scabs as well.
I don't know many CAL pilots except a hunting buddy. He says CAL pilots generally made peace with their scabs (in at least the 2 later groups).
When I was at UAL, there was no peace made with the scabs. It was wierd for a fresh off AD guy (me) to deal with it, mostly because the whole (union/airline) thing was so new to me.
Today, with codeshares and sub-contractors, some union and some non-union, it seems to me that flying struck work is a very cloudy picture - to be taken on a flight-by-flight basis. Even then it is unclear to me how to tell if someone is flying struck work.
My understanding of the CAL scab situation is that there were true picket line crossing scabs who crossed early. Then there were scabs that fought the good fight, lost everything and crossed much later (a year or more) to put food on the table. Then there was a third group who were told by ALPA - at some level- MEC, LEC or some other level to return to work and they were labeled scabs as well.
I don't know many CAL pilots except a hunting buddy. He says CAL pilots generally made peace with their scabs (in at least the 2 later groups).
When I was at UAL, there was no peace made with the scabs. It was wierd for a fresh off AD guy (me) to deal with it, mostly because the whole (union/airline) thing was so new to me.
Today, with codeshares and sub-contractors, some union and some non-union, it seems to me that flying struck work is a very cloudy picture - to be taken on a flight-by-flight basis. Even then it is unclear to me how to tell if someone is flying struck work.
CAL was made up of a lot of different groups who hated each other. But despite their differences they came together... to hate Coex.
04-24-2013, 07:08 PM
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
While we are talking tone. Anyone think this resonates with Richard Anderson's Pinnacle excitement in the Q1 2013 Earnings Call ?
Based on Mr. Anderson's comments Pinnacle's going to be an alter ego of Delta. Before you write your rep to complain consider not a one of them objected to ALPA's actions (previous Reps) and our contract is silent on another pilot group effectively wearing our uniforms (with minor changes), being handled by our agents and even maybe being staffed with Delta Flight Attendants. Behind the cockpit door we all look the same ... just they're a heck of a lot cheaper to pay.
... we really did not need to have this problem in 2015, but I think we are going have to deal with it then. By that time it will have a lot of momentum behind it.
Based on Mr. Anderson's comments Pinnacle's going to be an alter ego of Delta. Before you write your rep to complain consider not a one of them objected to ALPA's actions (previous Reps) and our contract is silent on another pilot group effectively wearing our uniforms (with minor changes), being handled by our agents and even maybe being staffed with Delta Flight Attendants. Behind the cockpit door we all look the same ... just they're a heck of a lot cheaper to pay.
... we really did not need to have this problem in 2015, but I think we are going have to deal with it then. By that time it will have a lot of momentum behind it.
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