It is very easy to Monday morning quarterback the 2012 contract and say there was money left on the table. Conversely it's very easy to say if we had voted down the contract we would still not have a contract or already be in mediation with the NLRB with United as the bar just about guaranteeing a less than desirable outcome. Could we have gotten more ?, possibly, could we have gotten less ?, possibly.
Scambo, you can call our rates bankruptcy or any other thing you want but in the eyes of the rest of the world including the NLRB our wages are Industry standard plus if not industry leading. I don't really like the post bankruptcy world but it is what it is and we can't turn back the clock. all we can do is keep trying to raise the bar. Singles and doubles will win a lot of games but hitting a homer while nice is a lot rarer.

 

Fixed it for ya.

Carl

 

They aren't Bar. Really, they're not. They don't even know or care what our interests are. ALPA national has their interests, and that's it. If your interests happen to coincide with theirs, then that's simply icing on the cake. A happy coincidence. Their prime directive is the fullfillment of their goals and their sustainment as an entity. Nothing else matters.

Carl

 

First of all, it was 62% - not 68%. 62% did NOT say it was good enough. 62% voted YES...big difference. DALPA completely mismanaged our negotiations, there can be little doubt of that left. The proof of that is most of the really bad actors in that drama are gone now.

Signing off on a deal without consulting the MEC, then handing it to the MEC for a vote as an already done deal needing a rubber stamp was a disaster. Many of the pilots who voted YES did so becasue they realized how completely outclassed our MEC leadership was, and it would be that same outclassed leadership that went back into the real Section 6 negotiations.

Carl

 

So.............. is DPA happening?

 

Translation: I need to change the subject here, so I'll utilize the tried and true method of inferring that you have no right to an opinion unless you're doing ALPA work.

This is a complete misunderstanding of negotiations. If the other party is already willing to do something, there's no need for negotiations! Negotiations is the art of compromise between two sides who DISAGREE! Unreal man. You want to work for a company that is a willing partner and supporter of the gains we all want? That's literally delusional.

That's a clear synopsis of management's position. But we're labor! What about that don't you get? If you're fine working hard for your company in the hopes that some of the amazing success might trickle down to you, then that's your right. But I don't want that. I pay union dues specifically to keep myself away from trickle down corporate economics.

Our time to talk came and went, and our "union" didn't make that case. Our "union" took the very first offer from management even before Section 6 negotiations began. Our "union" did all that while our company was hugely profitable. Working for a profitable and successful company is great, but you need a union who actually cares about your increased expectations. This one doesn't.

Carl

 

Notta chance... most of the cards are expired.

 

Really dude, you're like some weird obsessed chick that won't stop calling even after you break up with her. Is it impossible for you to make your selfish and wrong-headed points without referring to me?

Am I going to come home to find you boiling my pet rabbit on the stove or something?

Carl

 

That was me that found the AF/KLM contract numbers. Took me about 5 minutes to find it online. But their alternative to lying was saying that the AF/KLM guys made a lot more than us, therefore we should use them as a comparison during negotiations. But no. Instead DALPA uses UsAirways, United and American...in order to make us feel good about COLA pay rate increases.

Carl

 

First, I think you mean the NMB...not the NLRB. Second, this is pure personal opinion on your part. You don't speak for what the NMB thinks, or "the rest of the world".

I think part of your problem is that you focus on what seat you're in. You and I are doing decently, but still not world market rates for our aircraft. Where you really need to focus is the bottom two-thirds of our list where heavily experienced guys are making FAR below world market rates for the aircraft they fly. I cannot understand why you try to sugar coat this. It is inexcusable for the quality of pilot we have here to be making so far below world market rates. Inexcusable. That's the message to management. Not: "Oh Mr. Anderson, how's that whole stock buyback thing going? Anything we can do to help?"

We're not even hitting singles or doubles finis, we were afraid to leave the dugout! We got COLA pay rate increases, and that was partially funded by less profit sharing! It's not even keeping up with inflation...real inflation that is - the kind that includes food and energy. You've got to step up to the plate in order to hit a single or a double, much less a home run. Cowering in the dugout for fear of what might go wrong doesn't cut it.

Carl