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Old 06-17-2013 | 10:54 AM
  #132941  
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
The more I think about it that's one of the worst neighbor stories I've heard outside of spouse swaps.
He was using my water to refill his pool that had a leak. The neighbor on the other side also awoke one Saturday morning to find him in his kitchen making a pot of coffee. His excuse to him was that he didn't want to wake him as he was out of coffee and thought he wouldn't mind. Needless to say we both got our keys back from him after that one. I also made him pay the difference in my water bill, as I told him I would go to the " authorities" if he didn't. Thankfully they moved about a year later.
Old 06-17-2013 | 10:54 AM
  #132942  
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From: Light Chop
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Originally Posted by tsquare
321s are closer to a 757 than a 717...

Mr A doesn't seem to care how many different types we have here. If he can turn a profit with them, he probably would buy everything on the planet.

My concern is well documented. We get smaller and smaller, we make less and less. Period.
I agree. What I meant was for 125 seats we offer A319 and 737, 150 seats MD88 and A320, 160 seats MD90 or 738, 180 seats 752, 739, A321 and so on. I sure hope we don't try E195 off property and 717 on property.
Old 06-17-2013 | 11:21 AM
  #132943  
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
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Originally Posted by DALMD88FO
Let's see 3 years furloughed, 32% paycut when I did come back to stay out of bankruptcy, then another 14% paycut in bankruptcy, loss of retirement, base closed, and a merger that has stagnated pretty much everyone. If you've been getting a steady paycheck every two weeks then you've been doing better than the over two thousand pilots on the list that haven't.

Not to make light of your life right now, but you aren't stressing on feeding your family either.
Sorry to hear about your furlough. I feel terrible for the guys who had to endure a furlough this last round. A good buddy of mine was a furlough returnee and we both sat in the same basic indoc class, so I'm very familiar with the sacrifices some had to endure.

I am well familiar of the downside risk in this business. It would be foolish after seeing soo many out of work in the early 2000nds to think otherwise.

It seems you are trying to draw parallels between your experience and mine. So yes, if you strictly compare my career to that of others there are those who's careers took a far worse trajectory than mine.

I'm not looking for anyone's pity. But if you compare the scenarios you mentioned above and what is happening now there is a huge fundamental difference:
  • Our company is financially successful, not just a little, a lot, and has been for nearly 4 years...
  • We have new aircraft coming, some of which are actually growth aircraft and they are just months away.
  • Retirements are starting to pick up and will continue to accelerate.

From a "good news" perspective we should be sitting pretty. Yet somehow my own personal experience doesn't match the trends.
If I chart my career against the companies financial success I fail to find a correlation. In speaking to some of my buddies, that sentiment is shared. The good news always seems "just around the corner." Yet somehow someone keeps moving the cheese...

Don't get me wrong, the evidence is overwhelming things will improve, soon. Still I would be a fool not to use past experience to temper any early enthusiasm.

So when t is overtly optimistic, his perspective is informedd by his experience. When my recent optimism wanes that is similarly directly related to the latest AE...

The downside risk is still here, but the upside rewards keep getting trimmed. More codeshares, new rapidly growing foreign competitors and bigger aircraft will take even more bites going forward.

All of these threats and more will have a negative impact on one of the last remaining promises in this business -- our careers.

It behooves us as a group to aggressively work to reduce and stem any current and future negative impact on our careers...

Cheers
George
Old 06-17-2013 | 11:27 AM
  #132944  
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From: retired 767(dl)
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Originally Posted by dalad
He was using my water to refill his pool that had a leak. The neighbor on the other side also awoke one Saturday morning to find him in his kitchen making a pot of coffee. His excuse to him was that he didn't want to wake him as he was out of coffee and thought he wouldn't mind. Needless to say we both got our keys back from him after that one. I also made him pay the difference in my water bill, as I told him I would go to the " authorities" if he didn't. Thankfully they moved about a year later.
I guess your neighbor got transferred to MDW?
Old 06-17-2013 | 11:29 AM
  #132945  
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Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
Two wrongs don't make a right. Guys, the single best thing anyone can do here is take a long hard look at the elements you and I have control over (ie voting on contracts that allow more productivity and having a union that refuses to be a scope hawk). DALMD88FO, your group took the worst beating and continue to do so. Losing your job while others picked up time and hundreds of 50 seat RJ's operated by non Delta pilots ramped up had to hurt (all the while you scrambling to figure out how to feed your family).

The more recent hires...it sucks for them too (just not as bad is it did for you). Listen, the company will try another scope sale. They will target the more senior guys and koolaid drinkers. That is how they get these things to pass. If both of you guys and all of us want to prevent more stagnation (as the company fails to replace retiring pilots, gets more productivity and keeps throwing bones to large RJ pilots, JV partners, Code Share partners, Virgin Atlantic, GOL, Aeromexico...etc) then stop the madness. Hold your unions feet to the fire and for the love....quit voting for contracts that further suffocate your career as a Delta Air Lines pilot.
Ding Ding Ding!

And just to put a finer point on it:
I finally decided to do something about it. I set up a recurring pay deduction to the ALPA PAC. Before all y'all start going off on the usual ALPA vs DPA stuff, consider that the only thing that matters to anybody in DC is money. Everything else is secondary.
It's not right, its not good but that's just how it is...

So we can sit on the sidelines and lament an unfair system or we can pool our resources and affect some change.

I finally put on my big-boy pants and will be putting my money where my mouth is...

Cheers
George
Old 06-17-2013 | 11:33 AM
  #132946  
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From: 767er Captain
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Originally Posted by georgetg
Ding Ding Ding!

And just to put a finer point on it:
I finally decided to do something about it. I set up a recurring pay deduction to the ALPA PAC. Before all y'all start going off on the usual ALPA vs DPA stuff, consider that the only thing that matters to anybody in DC is money. Everything else is secondary.
It's not right, its not good but that's just how it is...

So we can sit on the sidelines and lament an unfair system or we can pool our resources and affect some change.

I finally put on my big-boy pants and will be putting my money where my mouth is...

Cheers
George
I want to thank you for doing that.
Old 06-17-2013 | 11:40 AM
  #132947  
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Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
Two wrongs don't make a right. Guys, the single best thing anyone can do here is take a long hard look at the elements you and I have control over (ie voting on contracts that allow more productivity and having a union that refuses to be a scope hawk). DALMD88FO, your group took the worst beating and continue to do so. Losing your job while others picked up time and hundreds of 50 seat RJ's operated by non Delta pilots ramped up had to hurt (all the while you scrambling to figure out how to feed your family).

The more recent hires...it sucks for them too (just not as bad is it did for you). Listen, the company will try another scope sale. They will target the more senior guys and koolaid drinkers. That is how they get these things to pass. If both of you guys and all of us want to prevent more stagnation (as the company fails to replace retiring pilots, gets more productivity and keeps throwing bones to large RJ pilots, JV partners, Code Share partners, Virgin Atlantic, GOL, Aeromexico...etc) then stop the madness. Hold your unions feet to the fire and for the love....quit voting for contracts that further suffocate your career as a Delta Air Lines pilot.
Jack, Unfortunately its a lot more than the senior guys, number wise they are a small percentage...those yes numbers are coming from a junior and mid seniority.
Old 06-17-2013 | 11:44 AM
  #132948  
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From: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
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I heard a guy in the pilot lounge telling a story about a flight landing at an outstation a few weeks ago with a MX write-up. He said Delta chartered a flight for the replacement parts and a mechanic to fix the bad jet over night.

If it's true...apparently there is plenty of extra cash in the budget. Good thing we let them off with 4/8/3/3.
Old 06-17-2013 | 11:52 AM
  #132949  
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Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
Two wrongs don't make a right. Guys, the single best thing anyone can do here is take a long hard look at the elements you and I have control over (ie voting on contracts that allow more productivity and having a union that refuses to be a scope hawk). DALMD88FO, your group took the worst beating and continue to do so. Losing your job while others picked up time and hundreds of 50 seat RJ's operated by non Delta pilots ramped up had to hurt (all the while you scrambling to figure out how to feed your family).

The more recent hires...it sucks for them too (just not as bad is it did for you). Listen, the company will try another scope sale. They will target the more senior guys and koolaid drinkers. That is how they get these things to pass. If both of you guys and all of us want to prevent more stagnation (as the company fails to replace retiring pilots, gets more productivity and keeps throwing bones to large RJ pilots, JV partners, Code Share partners, Virgin Atlantic, GOL, Aeromexico...etc) then stop the madness. Hold your unions feet to the fire and for the love....quit voting for contracts that further suffocate your career as a Delta Air Lines pilot.
Lots of guys here have the mentality that since things sucked for them it's ok for it to be bad for others. Examples would include newhires still having to pay for a hotel (even though even the regionals will take care of that), and wanting to go back to a seniority only reserve system where the junior guys take a beating while the senior guys have a paid vacation nearly every month. Things will never get better if we don't change this mentality. We should be trying to make things better, not rationalizing things since they were bad in the past. As a side note it seems like our work rules are going more toward that of regional airlines.
Old 06-17-2013 | 11:54 AM
  #132950  
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Originally Posted by iceman49
Jack, Unfortunately its a lot more than the senior guys, number wise they are a small percentage...those yes numbers are coming from a junior and mid seniority.
I'm afraid you might be right That said, in recent years they have definitely found success going after senior guys (less than 10 years left). Then ALPA sells it with catch phrases like "time value of money". A forward thinking union would not go along with this but alas they seem ok trading a minor money grab for scope sales. No long term strategy for the good of all pilots hurts the entire profession forever as David Behncke rolls over in his grave.

For the record the exact same sales job is going on over at Alaska Air Group right now. "Hurry guys take the money...this wont last long...we will worry about tightening scope next contract". It boggles the mind with all the carnage of outsourced flying and what appears to be ripening for more outsourced large RJ flying at Alaska (which could translate into outsourced Delta flying because the union will allow whatever Alaska was doing at Delta in the event of a Delta merger...the precedent has already been established). Still scratching my head how/why a few guys at the top of national and heading these ALPA MEC's continue to make the same mistakes and refuse to implement a long term strategy that would reverse a trend that continues to poison this career.

Last edited by Jack Bauer; 06-17-2013 at 12:20 PM.
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