George, this JV language has been in effect for what, five years? Block hrs are to be up 2% YOY in the second half of this year. That's a jump. Europe still is in the tank, what do want DAL to do, fly widely unprofitable flying just so we can progress or do you prefer them to execute the business plan that is trending above 2billion a year in profit?

If Europe ever recovers and medium to high yield ridership returns we stand to profit greatly on the balance of block hr flying on the TAJV. It was a JV that was built for upside growth. Kind of hard to have that for the last five years when the world economy has been in the crapper. Sucks but that is a harsh reality.

Non-complinace comes at a price. My Rep is very aware of it, and wants to know what the lack of progression and jobs has cost this group. It we get to 2015 and he is still in office he will push the issue, and hard, but thinking that DAL will fork over billions in new jets to pacify this non-complinace is a pipe dream.

On a second note, AF's ability to pull down flying was affected by French law prohibiting much of it. In the first part of this year, that low was watered down and AF pulled down a lot of flying.

Non-compliance is non-complinace and is dealt with through a grievance or negotiation. Nothing new here.

Oh that's right we are not under the RLA, there is a ton of incentive for the company to negotiate, our contracts expire and not not become amendable, the labor sided NMB has been so very pro-labor, and the company can't wait to throw money at us inside or outside of section 6.

Part of the issue is Labor in the airline industry has been effectively marginalized by the laws in place, and no, there is absolutely no incentive to provide anything more to a labor group until end state section 6.

You will respond that ALPA needs to change the RLA, and that is a great idea, but even now, we may end us hurting ourselves more than we help. End state section 6 is at least in 2017 if not later. Pilots have clearly stated they want progression now, so what does that leave us with? Yep, proactive negotiations. It does help that we would for a company making money, but it does not mean it will be forked over.

Reality of the world around you may suck, but the reality inside our world is the incentive for you company to pay you one more cent, is well, minimal.

Hahaha. Both you and Buzz cracked me up!

Check Essential,

Please attend the C44 meeting 11 AM August 1. Captain Rick Dominguez is "the man" who thought up these agreements & today maintains leadership on these issues. If anyone has questions, or input, this is an opportunity to learn and have your voice heard by the leadership that matters (it can be imagined our MEC Chairman, most of the negotiating committee, Committee experts) will be there.

All these men want to grow Delta's "share" of these agreements.

BB

It seems to be effecting ALK's stock price.

You hear the investor call this week? Hear the response on ALK?
He said they were so confident in their relationship with ALK that they are growing SEA, but yeah actions seem to be louder than their words.

After nearly a decade in the mighty MD88 I'm thinking of moving airplanes. Quick question...if I go to the ER and say after a year decide to move to another plane and take a VD, do I carry my extra year lock to the new plane plus the 2 year freeze on the new training? Or does the VD wipe out any seat lock you have had on the aircraft?

Thanks...

That is what I told my reps too.

Rogue, I agree the deck is stacked in many ways against our profession as far as laws. My record is clear on the TA, I voted yes mainly because section 1 captured scope and returned real jobs back to mainline. Next time I hope we can do even better. My tongue in cheek comment about our lawyers and negotiations with the company is directed at the facts that we seem to be one step behind in many key areas the company is already farther ahead protecting their interests. Next time will we have such a long compliance window? I am certainly all for constructive engagement, it works more than it does not. Many here certainly feel it is a losing position. My concern is we need to convey to our reps that we need stronger consequences (not just language) when the company willfully goes against our contract. Any amount of $$$ is not what the company wants to spend to placate this pilot group. It may not be a lot in terms of the big picture but $$$ is a powerful incentive to re- engage on both sides when it come to compliance....

Fiig

Sam Mason does a great job for our pilots.

Back when this deal was done (and immediately appeared in peril) the CS Committee pointed out we were tracking about where we had been prior to inclusion of Alitalia in our JV. As stated in the previous post, our MEC wants to grow our flying and achieving growth was thought to be well worth the "price" (my characterization) of the expanded measurement window. At the the time it was management's stated intention to grow to 50% of the bigger pie (with AZ filling). Then the European economic decline occurred and Air France was no where near as nimble as Delta in constraining capacity. (news reports at that time reflected the stress Air France and Delta had maintaining their liason amoureuse)

Things are changing and Delta's nimble. The British economy is rebounding well and we just added a 7ER flight from Seattle to Heathrow.

As I understand it, the VA JV (which is supposed to be live by 1/1/14) is not going to be rolled into our current transatlantic JV. If this continues to be the case then it is probably better for us than adding Virgin to our share. I would argue we are splitting the Atlantic; this is not the "English Channel Joint Venture."

Also, Delta said they are not going to merge numbers in any way with Virgin. So we will be able to track the results of that operation transparently on Delta's reports. We here in the bleachers can see that game being played out. The Seattle flight is a win.

Also, we have hit our metrics ... time for a Widebody acquisition ... JMHO.

AE=Seat Lock

VD=Seat Lock

MD=Freedom

If you go to the ER, you will be there for 2 years unless MD. Coming from the MD88 you will also lose the "character" that Douglas has beat into you. When you lose your "character" you think everything that's not an ER just stinks (except for the 777 which is a bigger and easier ER of course). You'll also find that the 737 sure aint an ER, but you'll have lost the "character" necessary to bid back to the 88. So it is really a Hobson's choice.

Good luck on your escape Shawshank.