I agree Scoop. Although I used to dig being a senior reserve and not working I feel the current bucket system seems to be a good compromise.

 

Just "doing it through the Internet or something" would very likely result in skewed results due to self-selection bias among other problems.

I get that you specifically wanted to be asked your thoughts, but its not cost effective to call every single pilot. The MEC did that last year and it took nearly 4 months to complete the call. It is a massive effort.

All parts of the list: junior, senior, reg, rsv, etc were called. Something like 700 or 800 pilots were called to achieve a representative sample. The polling is conducted by a professional third party that had been doing this for decades:

http://www.teamsterssfo.com/items/is...MENTedited.pdf

There is nothing shady going on here. In fact, I like the fact that the MEC was responsible enough to order the poll to figure out exactly what the majority wants, in light of the conflicting resolutions.

 

The way we had it a couple years ago (no 80 RAW score) was not fair to the senior folks. I think it's ok right now. Maybe decrease the RAW score a little. I definitely don't want us to go to seniority only, and I'm a senior reserve! I think the current system is a good balance.

 

I agree with this as well.

With some tweaking to the SC situation the current bucket system is a good compromise.

The previous system (pre bucket) basically ignored seniority unless raw scores were equal. And the only time that usually happened was at the beginning of the month when everyone was at zero.


Political rant: distributing reserve flying equally between junior and senior seems to run contrary to our entirely seniority-based world. What is next to be changed?

 

I've more or less come to terms with the bucket size- however SC really needs to be part of the standard bucket. I've worked every day possible this month due to the SC deal.

FWIW, in regard to getting to bucket 2- It takes around a 4 day and a 2-3 day to hit bucket 2.

 

Sorry, but the highlighted sentence really grinds my gears. This is a job. If you want to get paid then you're going to have to WORK. This isn't a charity. It's a business. It's also our unions duty to represent and work to improve the QOL of ALL of it's pilots. So it's not ok for someone to expect the bottom of the category to do all the work while he/she sits around all month doing nothing.

When people are in the same bucket, seniority is honored. The system absolutely honors seniority.

I'm sorry for jumping down your throat.

 

I just think items like this should be put to us for a vote. This Bucket LOA was implemented and I asked my rep why. He said they got 300 or so comments asking for more seniority on reserve. Problem is we had 12000 plus pilots at the time. I really don't think 300 is representative of 12000. Just my thoughts.

 

I'm totally behind johnso on this one.
(edit-- the below isn't directed to APCLurker or anyone specifically, just generally)

We as a group are soooo beyond any possible explanation of fairness or justice with this "seniority rules everything" mentality. This seniority-pyramid scheme is like every other pyramid scheme-- it only works so long as new schmucks enter in at the bottom and float the previous schmucks upwards. There is little to no justification for it except "well I had to put up with it, now it's my turn to be king and yours to be defecated on".

The senior folks have enjoyed an absolutely unprecedented length and power of seniority with the age 65 ruling. But they perceive themselves as having not moved up from uber to Uuuuuber-senior, and so they feel justified in further scatting on the juniority. The junior schmucks have been subjected to unrelieved bottom-dwelling. The pyramid scheme has been broken.

Bidding the jet you want, in the base you want, is already such a huge benefit. Then you allow folks to get first pick of trips via PBS--another huge shifting towards unfairness and disparity of treatment from the old "line of time" method where at least the trips in a month were somewhat balanced. Then you give choice of vacations via seniority. Then you give non-revving based on seniority. Now you want MORE seniority on reserve? Wow...

The system doesn't HAVE to work this way, and seniority driving everything is NOT a given. Not everyone does it that way, and certainly in other labor groups or employee groups beyond flying it's not done that way.

While I don't have a workable alternative envisioned in perfect detail in my head, I do know that essentially asking that junior guys fill up most of their month before I had to lift a finger for work is equivalent to wearing a pink Delta hat with the words "Selfish Douche Clown" under the widget.

 

btw= the reason for my complaining about the SC deal... It's the 12th and I've already got over 57 hours of credit. I'm nowhere near the plug anymore, too.

 

Good because once again, you are saying things that I am not.

Where did I ever say that senior should get to sit around and do nothing while junior does it all? I agreed with scoop and others that the current system does a good job of spreading flying while honoring seniority. I even stated/agreed that the SC situation needs to be tweaked. Why do I say that? To help prevent said situation of sitting around and doing nothing while others do it all.

Where did I say otherwise? I said the previous system basically ignored seniority. (kinda like cycle pilot did)

And regarding my last statement, it was a general statement on the whole notion of "fair" or "equal" or any other such descriptor in an entirely seniority based world using the context of currently discussed reserve. I find the concept of "fair" and "equal" a little contradictory to an entirely seniority based system. Kinda like alpa representing majors and regionals at the same time. Can't do it "fairly." One group gains flying, the other loses it. That was not a statement saying zero flying vs doing all the work is fair.


Do we seriously need to go through this again johnso? Actually, on second thought, please do me a favor and put me on ignore.

And before anyone accuses me of "pulling up the ladder" or such notion, I am still in the bottom 10% of the seniority list 12 years after hired.