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Old 08-12-2013 | 08:54 PM
  #136981  
80ktsClamp's Avatar
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From: Poodle Whisperer
Default

Originally Posted by RockyBoy
But by the end of the month I'll bet everyone will end up within 10 hours of credit of each other. I've noticed when the SC deal gets you (and I think it sucks too) that you will fly alot until you hit bucket 3 or 3 short calls. After that you kinda end up being done with trips and done with SC unless everyone is flying into bucket 4 in your base.

I think the system actually works great and wouldnt change much....other than maybe the senior 10% of reserve guys get long call only and no short calls.
I've got vacation now... already been used to the maximum possible. I'm only good for 2 more days at the end of the month (which I'll certainly be used for unless I can get a green).

I've found there is a much wider variation in rsv usage... typically there is a main group within 10 hours of each other, and there are a few that get boned flying 20 more hours than others.
Old 08-12-2013 | 08:58 PM
  #136982  
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From: Poodle Whisperer
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Originally Posted by buzzpat
This is anecdotal I know....but the #1 CA in LA bid reserve a few months ago and got jammed with 6 SCs in a row. I've only been on reserve one month under the new system so I can't really say much. I will add, though, that when I was on reserve under the old rules I hated the fact that seniority played absolutely no part in the process.
To get 6 SC in a row, you have to yellow first on SC.

I agree with there being seniority on rsv. It's logical. However, the separate SC bucket is just stupid. To end up working 11/12 days solely due to not having been able to sit SC is not good.
Old 08-12-2013 | 09:02 PM
  #136983  
buzzpat's Avatar
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,070
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From: Urban chicken rancher.
Talking

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
To get 6 SC in a row, you have to yellow first on SC.

I agree with there being seniority on rsv. It's logical. However, the separate SC bucket is just stupid. To end up working 11/12 days solely due to not having been able to sit SC is not good.
I don't know anything about yellowing a SC but he's a commuter so I can't see him doing that. MB he did, I don't know. I guarantee he won't bid RSV again.
Old 08-12-2013 | 09:32 PM
  #136984  
Gets Weekends Off
Liked
25M+ Airline Miles
Line Holder
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,831
Likes: 172
From: window seat
Default

Originally Posted by buzzpat
Break break....I love my job. Just met Nicole Kidman.

Carry on....
PM me her phone number or it didn't happen.
Old 08-12-2013 | 09:33 PM
  #136985  
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Joined: May 2012
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Originally Posted by APCLurker
So the size of the 320 pilot base in ATL could end up being right-sized in the future for the amount of departurers.
Should say "could end up being the right size in the future for the amount..." Was not implying a reduction in size of base. Would not let me edit.
Old 08-12-2013 | 09:41 PM
  #136986  
Moderator
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
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From: DAL 330
Default Reserve Bucket System

I think most fair minded people agree we should have a equitable reserve system that partly weighs seniority, but does not unduly burden our junior Pilots. I am all for such a system. And when I say junior I mean junior in seat, a 1500 seniority number can be junior on 777 reserve so it is not really a junior vs. senior issue, but more of a fairness and QOL issue in my mind.

The problem is one mans fair system is another mans hose job. I personally think the current bucket systems is a good compromise. Not perfect by any means, so lets improve it where we can, but overall not too bad.


At times since the system started I have looked at different categories and posted actual numbers. Yes, actual data points like RAW scores and SC assignments but those who don't think the system is fair just blow this off and recite some anecdotal evidence of the perceived unfairness of the system.

Well - I would rather have hard facts then anecdotal evidence. Hopefully DALPA will release some system-wide numbers that covers both busy and slow months and we can adjust the buckets if required. But until I see some solid evidence that supports changing the system I am fine with it as is - with the one exception of correcting and improving the SC assignments.

My category LAX 73N is pretty small so it is very random to the point that seniority is often trumped by days of availability etc. That is OK because it serves to even everything out. Once again I have looked at a larger NB category - ATL 320 B and here is what it looks like for tomorrow:

The following are the RAW scores with associated SC assignments as of 13 August:

RAW-S/C
77-0
54-1
47-3
74-2
72-0
47-2
24-3
33-0
96-0
34-1
31-4
97-0
89-0

I realize that a snapshot of 1 category does not paint a 100% accurate picture of the system, but its better than me saying "I got hosed on reserve all month and three guys did not fly at all."

It looks pretty good to me. The 3 guys in bucket 2 should now be able to relax until the others catch-up. The weak link in this chain is that none of these bucket 2 guys had any SC assignments so they may be again called out from a SC assignment. I think this needs to be addressed but all in all the whole bucket concept, and the 80 point buckets seem OK to me.


Scoop
Old 08-12-2013 | 09:44 PM
  #136987  
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From: 767er Captain
Default

Originally Posted by buzzpat
Break break....I love my job. Just met Nicole Kidman.

Carry on....
You are a best selling author. And this is some big deal for you? Really?

But flying out of NY has it's perks too. I had Al Sharpton and Rudy Juliani recently (different flights though, unfortunately because the donnybrook that might have happened in back would have been epic)
Old 08-12-2013 | 10:02 PM
  #136988  
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From: Light Chop
Default

Originally Posted by buzzpat
I don't know anything about yellowing a SC but he's a commuter so I can't see him doing that. MB he did, I don't know. I guarantee he won't bid RSV again.
he might have done it on purpose to get them out of the way. now all he can do is sit long call for the rest of the month.
Old 08-12-2013 | 10:22 PM
  #136989  
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veut gagner à la loterie
 
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From: Light Chop
Default

fwiw it's often said that seniority had no part in the straight RAW system, that's incorrect.

3 things from the old straight RAW system:
  • When your RAW score equaled another pilots and you had the same number of days, the most junior pilot was up next. At the beginning of the month everyone had 0 RAW score so the senior pilot flew last.
  • SC assignments were random in who did it and the quantity of pilots who sat SC.
  • SC = 0 points. It meant nothing.

Now there were several senior pilots who had complaints about the old system and occasionally the complaints were based on it was unfair a guy only available for 3 days didn't get the 4-day trip that was assigned to them. That's still the case and would be the case on a seniority only based system.

Or that a senior guy with a RAW score of 1 point lower than a junior pilot gets a trip instead of the junior guy. But the line has to be drawn somewhere, I mean we assign seniority by your ssn and nobody complains.
Old 08-12-2013 | 10:35 PM
  #136990  
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Default

Originally Posted by Scoop
I think most fair minded people agree we should have a equitable reserve system that partly weighs seniority, but does not unduly burden our junior Pilots. I am all for such a system. And when I say junior I mean junior in seat, a 1500 seniority number can be junior on 777 reserve so it is not really a junior vs. senior issue, but more of a fairness and QOL issue in my mind.

The problem is one mans fair system is another mans hose job. I personally think the current bucket systems is a good compromise. Not perfect by any means, so lets improve it where we can, but overall not too bad.


At times since the system started I have looked at different categories and posted actual numbers. Yes, actual data points like RAW scores and SC assignments but those who don't think the system is fair just blow this off and recite some anecdotal evidence of the perceived unfairness of the system.

Well - I would rather have hard facts then anecdotal evidence. Hopefully DALPA will release some system-wide numbers that covers both busy and slow months and we can adjust the buckets if required. But until I see some solid evidence that supports changing the system I am fine with it as is - with the one exception of correcting and improving the SC assignments.

My category LAX 73N is pretty small so it is very random to the point that seniority is often trumped by days of availability etc. That is OK because it serves to even everything out. Once again I have looked at a larger NB category - ATL 320 B and here is what it looks like for tomorrow:

The following are the RAW scores with associated SC assignments as of 13 August:

RAW-S/C
77-0
54-1
47-3
74-2
72-0
47-2
24-3
33-0
96-0
34-1
31-4
97-0
89-0

I realize that a snapshot of 1 category does not paint a 100% accurate picture of the system, but its better than me saying "I got hosed on reserve all month and three guys did not fly at all."

It looks pretty good to me. The 3 guys in bucket 2 should now be able to relax until the others catch-up. The weak link in this chain is that none of these bucket 2 guys had any SC assignments so they may be again called out from a SC assignment. I think this needs to be addressed but all in all the whole bucket concept, and the 80 point buckets seem OK to me.


Scoop
The buckets are fine, but SC has to be fixed and be part of the RAW in a much bigger way than it is.

No kidding this happened a few months ago:
I had credited around 70 hrs (triple digit RAW) and had 3SC credits
The other guy had not flown a single day and also had 3 SC credits.

Both of us had one day of availability.
The local pilot with zero credit was senior.
I was just finishing up a four-day and had the jumpseat reserved for the commute home.
Guess which pilot got the extra SC and had to buy a hotel room and stick around for an extra day...

Seniority should matter...after all I'll be senior someday, but the short-call credit has to improve or influence the RAW score in a way to avoid having a guy work every day of availability for the month AND sit an additional short-call, while the other guy who lives in-base stayed at home all month.

I think we should actually incentivize local pilots to pick up SC to up their RAW value and relive commuters from buying hotel rooms to sit around.
  • As a commuter I would much rather fly.
  • As an in-base pilot I would gladly fill up on SC if it put me in higher buckets...
I can't see how this would be associated with much extra cost for the company, but it sure would improve QOL for the affected pilots...

Cheers
George
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