Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-11-2009, 06:40 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,387
Everyone hates the concentration of flights in Atlanta. During the 96 contract Dalpa audited the books on each hub since the same complaint was being made. They wanted to show the company they could spread the flying around more. After having the National Finance team look at everything they came back and said. Atlanta drives the airline and its where the money is made. A quick look at O&D traffic shows why. The top five airports are Las Vegas, LAX, ORD, ATL and MCO. They all run around 30 million O&D passengers a year and trade spots year to year in the rankings. Of those 5 airports two are low yield tourists destinations.(Vegas and Orlando). What is left is Lax, ORD and Atlanta. LAX has no single airline in control and multiple options among major airlines. ORD has both AMR and UAL fighting it out with SWA providing a low cost outlet from Midway. That leaves Delta in a unique situation in Atlanta. They have no other real full service airline competition. ValueJet/Airtran is the only other airline with a sizeable presense. This is unique to Delta airlines. No other airline enjoys a hub with the amount of O&D traffice and limited competition that Delta does in Atlanta.
A post a few pages back talked about moving more domestic traffict to Memphis from Atlanta. Memphis already enjoys more flights and destinations relative to its O&D traffic then any airport in the country except CLT. The Memphis area generates barely 4 million O&D passengers a year. Its highly unlikely to ever support much more flying then it has and be profitable. CVG's fate was doomed the same way and had about the same amount of O&D traffic. The simply answer of why Delta has so many flights in ATL was provided years ago by John Dillinger when asked why he robbed banks. He replied "Because thats where the Money Is". ATL is the bank for Delta. As a long term West Coast person I wish it were different. DALPA tried to prove it different but when allowed to see the real numbers came to the same conclusion as managment. ATL is the economic engine that drives Delta.
A post a few pages back talked about moving more domestic traffict to Memphis from Atlanta. Memphis already enjoys more flights and destinations relative to its O&D traffic then any airport in the country except CLT. The Memphis area generates barely 4 million O&D passengers a year. Its highly unlikely to ever support much more flying then it has and be profitable. CVG's fate was doomed the same way and had about the same amount of O&D traffic. The simply answer of why Delta has so many flights in ATL was provided years ago by John Dillinger when asked why he robbed banks. He replied "Because thats where the Money Is". ATL is the bank for Delta. As a long term West Coast person I wish it were different. DALPA tried to prove it different but when allowed to see the real numbers came to the same conclusion as managment. ATL is the economic engine that drives Delta.
09-11-2009, 06:44 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Everyone hates the concentration of flights in Atlanta. During the 96 contract Dalpa audited the books on each hub since the same complaint was being made. They wanted to show the company they could spread the flying around more. After having the National Finance team look at everything they came back and said. Atlanta drives the airline and its where the money is made. A quick look at O&D traffic shows why. The top five airports are Las Vegas, LAX, ORD, ATL and MCO. They all run around 30 million O&D passengers a year and trade spots year to year in the rankings. Of those 5 airports two are low yield tourists destinations.(Vegas and Orlando). What is left is Lax, ORD and Atlanta. LAX has no single airline in control and multiple options among major airlines. ORD has both AMR and UAL fighting it out with SWA providing a low cost outlet from Midway. That leaves Delta in a unique situation in Atlanta. They have no other real full service airline competition. ValueJet/Airtran is the only other airline with a sizeable presense. This is unique to Delta airlines. No other airline enjoys a hub with the amount of O&D traffice and limited competition that Delta does in Atlanta.
A post a few pages back talked about moving more domestic traffict to Memphis from Atlanta. Memphis already enjoys more flights and destinations relative to its O&D traffic then any airport in the country except CLT. The Memphis area generates barely 4 million O&D passengers a year. Its highly unlikely to ever support much more flying then it has and be profitable. CVG's fate was doomed the same way and had about the same amount of O&D traffic. The simply answer of why Delta has so many flights in ATL was provided years ago by John Dillinger when asked why he robbed banks. He replied "Because thats where the Money Is". ATL is the bank for Delta. As a long term West Coast person I wish it were different. DALPA tried to prove it different but when allowed to see the real numbers came to the same conclusion as managment. ATL is the economic engine that drives Delta.
A post a few pages back talked about moving more domestic traffict to Memphis from Atlanta. Memphis already enjoys more flights and destinations relative to its O&D traffic then any airport in the country except CLT. The Memphis area generates barely 4 million O&D passengers a year. Its highly unlikely to ever support much more flying then it has and be profitable. CVG's fate was doomed the same way and had about the same amount of O&D traffic. The simply answer of why Delta has so many flights in ATL was provided years ago by John Dillinger when asked why he robbed banks. He replied "Because thats where the Money Is". ATL is the bank for Delta. As a long term West Coast person I wish it were different. DALPA tried to prove it different but when allowed to see the real numbers came to the same conclusion as managment. ATL is the economic engine that drives Delta.
09-11-2009, 06:45 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,387
IMHO, there is a lot more to this. DAL took a chance and it is a huge one. It would allow a ton of flexibility with the flying out of NRT, take a founding partner out of another alliance, shore up the Far East with a great brand, and at the end of the day have a ton of flying performed by another carrier. We need to be very careful about this JV. To me it is more than just a joint venture. We own the majority of their outstanding shares. I hope we can find a way to do a lot of that flying for them.
I hope you are right. This really worries me. NRT is losing huge amounts of money at the moment. Yields are down 40 percent in the far east in many markets vice 20 persent in the rest of the world. I hope Delta does not forge a link with JAL and use the link to shut down the NRT hub. They had no problem dumping the FRA hub with its 5th freedom rights after we linked up with AirFrance.
09-11-2009, 06:52 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I hope you are right. This really worries me. NRT is losing huge amounts of money at the moment. Yields are down 40 percent in the far east in many markets vice 20 persent in the rest of the world. I hope Delta does not forge a link with JAL and use the link to shut down the NRT hub. They had no problem dumping the FRA hub with its 5th freedom rights after we linked up with AirFrance.
I see this as a way to have a work around to the eventuality that the Fifth Freedom rights would be moot here in the near term. DAL was very worried that Japan was going to adopt OPEN Skies, and it would kill their competitive advantage in the Far East. This is a way to shore up that risk.
If this proves to be a successful transaction for DAL the corporate entity, we as the pilots need to make very certain that we have iron clad protections in Section 1. This is not an instance where a 50% of the growth would do us much good. We need to be thinking three to five steps down the road.
IMHO, this allows us to control the routes, planning and schedules of a foreign entity. I wonder what routes JAL will lose because of being Foreign owned? Maybe none. We shall see. It is a totally different animal than the AF/KLM JV. We need to treat it as such.
Last edited by acl65pilot; 09-11-2009 at 08:40 AM.
09-11-2009, 07:09 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
The linkup with JAL is super simple:
RA and BC are just trying to get their hands on the Maddogs JAL inherited when it took over JAS.
Cheers
George
RA and BC are just trying to get their hands on the Maddogs JAL inherited when it took over JAS.
Cheers
George
09-11-2009, 07:12 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
09-11-2009, 07:13 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
If this proves to be a successful transaction for DAL the corporate entity, we as the pilots need to make very certain that we have iron clad protections in Section 1. This is not an instance where a 50% of the growth would do us much good. We need to be thinking three to five steps down the road.
On the other hand maybe we can learn from them.
The Japanese unions are powerhouses, here's some specific examples (ANA, JAL competitor):
-Parked all L1011s, career FEs offered from-scratch pilot training to move up to the right seat. These guys were in their 50s!
-Limo pickup to and from home for your rotations!
(Ok so ANA pilots ceded this a few years ago, but the NCA 74 drivers still get that)
-During training the new hire's work 3 days a week, so there's time to study and relax.
Cheers
George
09-11-2009, 08:05 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Oh wait...
By the way, this is your monthly reminder to BID for October! Put something in there before its too late... this however does not apply to ATL MD88 B.
09-11-2009, 08:07 AM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 11
No more giving away section 1 through JV's, code sharing, cargo outsourcing/sharing and rj's.
These JV's are potentially the most dangerous and threatening of the above listed scope concession to our jobs.
When the company comes looking for contractual relief inorder to consumate this deal, we should open and hold with this:
Every pilot will be pay protected to a minimum of 73N A pay for their years of service for the duration of ANY JV.
Furlough. If a furlough of any "flavor" occurs while a JV is in place, all furloughed pilots are to receive min line value for 73NB with full retirement and medical benefits for the duration of the furlough.
Whenever section 1 is compromised, we lose Pay and Retirement first and foremost. It is not just an rj here, a JV AF/KLM flight there, and now the Asian flying as well.
Vote wisely in the 44. Enough of the incumbent WBM.
-T
09-11-2009, 08:12 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
No more giving away section 1 through JV's, code sharing, cargo outsourcing/sharing and rj's.
These JV's are potentially the most dangerous and threatening of the above listed scope concession to our jobs.
When the company comes looking for contractual relief inorder to consumate this deal, we should open and hold with this:
Every pilot will be pay protected to a minimum of 73N A pay for their years of service for the duration of ANY JV.
Furlough. If a furlough of any "flavor" occurs while a JV is in place, all furloughed pilots are to receive min line value for 73NB with full retirement and medical benefits for the duration of the furlough.
Whenever section 1 is compromised, we lose Pay and Retirement first and foremost. It is not just an rj here, a JV AF/KLM flight there, and now the Asian flying as well.
Vote wisely in the 44. Enough of the incumbent WBM.
-T
These JV's are potentially the most dangerous and threatening of the above listed scope concession to our jobs.
When the company comes looking for contractual relief inorder to consumate this deal, we should open and hold with this:
Every pilot will be pay protected to a minimum of 73N A pay for their years of service for the duration of ANY JV.
Furlough. If a furlough of any "flavor" occurs while a JV is in place, all furloughed pilots are to receive min line value for 73NB with full retirement and medical benefits for the duration of the furlough.
Whenever section 1 is compromised, we lose Pay and Retirement first and foremost. It is not just an rj here, a JV AF/KLM flight there, and now the Asian flying as well.
Vote wisely in the 44. Enough of the incumbent WBM.
-T
In reality scope erosion kills pay and retirement. JV's and code share's kill pay and retirement, because it is all about movement and options. With less options and airframes for us to fill, no matter what the hourly rate is, your retirement will suffer.
Last edited by acl65pilot; 09-11-2009 at 08:39 AM.
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