DAL has options on other 777s as well. Those would be DALS bids first.

As someone mentioned, what if DAL converts 787's to 777s. That is where the rub comes in. I am not a litigious person, but think there probably would be a suit in that case. I would rather we have more big jets. That is a good thing.

I must admit a level of concern with regard to JAL and their US routes and AF with the 380. I do not know why we always seem to be the airline that is adjusting, shrinking, etc.

This is not my original thought, but I think it deserves consideration: DAL is the RJ feeder for AF/KLM. We feed their widebodies with our 757s. The ironic thing is that our pilot group is paid less than either of theirs. It doesn't make sense to me why we aren't the one growing like crazy. Someone had pointed out that to hold AF 777 Capt is a 1997 hire date. ****.

Bar; I'm not trying to bum you out.

 

I don't want to start a food fight and reopen the SLI here but, it looks to me, that any 777 deliveries within the 5 year fence that are not deemed "replacement" aircraft, would be fenced as would be any 747 and 787 positions added within the 5 years. Here are the relevant "conditions and restrictions" that I think apply here:

4. For the period of five (5) years beginning with the first bid period after the issuance of the Single Operating Certificate (SOC), no pre-merger Northwest
pilot may be awarded or displaced to a vacancy on a B777 aircraft or category and no pre-merger Delta pilot may be awarded or displaced to a B787 or B747 vacancy.
5. Should the merged company take delivery of any aircraft which is/are a replacement of any aircraft covered by Paragraph 4., the captain positions and, as applicable, the first officer positions on each such replacement aircraft will be allocated in accordance with the Paragraph 4. restrictions on the type it is replacing.
6. Paragraph 4. shall expire on the fifth (5th) anniversary of the SOC. Any bid awards or displacements effective after that date will not be subject to this restriction.


Am I not reading something correctly?

Denny

 

Why do we have fences anyways?



But thanks to some new found knowledge, I now know that the 757/767 had an invisible fart fence. That is awesome.

 

A reasonable argument could be made that the 777-200 is clearly a Delta South jet. Where the water gets muddy in a hurry is if 747's start going away to coincide with delivery of 777-300's.

Several airline executives, including our partners, insist our operation of the -200 over the Pacific is the wrong airplane for that mission. They think a 777-300 is much more competitive than the 747 or the 777-200.

It makes no sense to me that we fenced off such a narrow portion of the flying. Shows who's jobs they wanted to protect. IMHO we should have lots of fences to protect lots of people, or none at all. All we'll do in 5 years is get another portion of the list out of seniority and trigger displacements again in ~ 36 months.

Just an opinion.

 

Interesting post Bar.

I would've liked no fences personally. Not on the top, middle or bottom but I would always like really strong fences and gates with molten lava, manned by you, when it came to DCI and JVs even if the latter is a very complex issue.

 

I agree. My opinion during the SLI discussions was that the various equities brought by either side should be considered, and used to determine the pecking order. Then everyone would find their place on the list, and get to enjoy the privileges of full membership, so to speak. No restriction, no condition. After all, if a list is fair (enough), you don't need to have bastardized mechanisms to rectify its' conceptual errors. It's either correct, or it isn't.

Besides, any fence (or any differential in rigths for that matter) lessens unity. Which decreases leverage. For everyone involved.

 

JAN estimated regular lines:

NYC88A-60
NYC88B-58
ATL88A-384
ATL88B-370

Go to Deltanet, crew resources and scheduling, then look on left margin for this info....

 

The award makes no mention of fleet plans nor does it differentiate between orders or options. BTW, DAL has options with scheduled delivery dates for 27 777s. The only way for a NWA pilot to gain access to a 777, or a DAL pilot to gain access to a 747 or 787 is if there are insufficuient bidders, or the aircraft is a replacement aircraft for either a 777, 747, or 787.

Delta could order 20 747s or 100 787s and as long as there are sufficient bidders and the aircraft aren't a replacement for the 777, than only DAL (N) pilots will fly it while the fence is in place. The same holds true if DAL orders 20 more 777s.

4. For the period of five (5) years beginning with the first bid period after the
issuance of the Single Operating Certificate (SOC), no pre-merger
Northwest pilot may be awarded or displaced to a vacancy on a B777
aircraft or category and no pre-merger Delta pilot may be awarded or
displaced to a B787 or B747 vacancy.

5. Should the merged company take delivery of any aircraft which is/are a
replacement of any aircraft covered by Paragraph 4., the captain positions
and, as applicable, the first officer positions on each such replacement
aircraft will be allocated in accordance with the Paragraph 4. restrictions
on the type it is replacing.

6. Paragraph 4. shall expire on the fifth (5th) anniversary of the SOC. Any
bid awards or displacements effective after that date will not be subject to
this restriction.

7. If there are insufficient bidders from one pre-merger pilot group for a
posted or contingent vacancy on one side of the fence during the period
covered by Paragraph 4., unfilled vacancies may be filled by pilots from the
other pre-merger airline.

8. A pilot awarded a position (via an AE, MD or VD) to a category as a result
of insufficient bidders will, for the purposes of processing future
displacements in accordance with Section 22 F. of the JCBA, be considered
as junior to all pilots from the pre-merger pilot group that was entitled to
that category.

 

Wholeheartedly agree.

also--how's your "sackful" of pride for "chubby" santa working out this season? everything ok at the north "pole?"

 

Don't feel bad. My neighbors think I'm a drug dealer. I hang around the house all day for days on end, and then disappear for a few days and reappear.

One accused me of being an agent of the CIA. Every time I'd disappear, something would happen somewhere on the planet and then I'd be home a few days later.


I don't make a real attempt to dissuade them. Seems those are more legit occupations than pilot.....