Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-09-2009, 08:14 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Everyone needs to remember one thing. Management merges companies and pilots deal with the merger. Repeat that until it sinks in. Pilots can plan all they want for grand unifications, but unless they control the companies it is pie in the sky. Until that happens, it is untenable to have the current situation. Does anyone think we could just go to management and ask them to merge? They would laugh in your face. Their first question would "what will you give up for this?" If your answer is "nothing" then end of conversation. People need to come back to Earth on this subject. The current setup is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I cannot believe 12 MEC members were too dumb to realize this. Once more, who merges companies?
10-09-2009, 08:33 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 58
Once more, what happens when the seniority list at Compass is full of furloughed Delta pilots?
10-09-2009, 08:36 PM
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Position: B737 CA
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Originally Posted by alfaromeo
The current setup is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I cannot believe 12 MEC members were too dumb to realize this.
10-09-2009, 08:42 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
the DAL MEC's perspective:
"We don't care what you think or what you want, because we know better than you and will do what we want."
The ATL LEC echos a similar perspective. Time for some "change" around here...
"We don't care what you think or what you want, because we know better than you and will do what we want."
The ATL LEC echos a similar perspective. Time for some "change" around here...
10-09-2009, 08:46 PM
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Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by smitty145
Once more, what happens when the seniority list at Compass is full of furloughed Delta pilots?
The idea that flowdowns are going to get fired en masse and be unable to return is ridiculous on its face.
10-09-2009, 08:54 PM
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Posts: 1,518
Originally Posted by slowplay
Same thing that happened last time Delta furloughed pilots. Some got jobs at the wholly owned. Then they got recalled when the opportunity to return came.
10-09-2009, 09:46 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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Smitty's question is entirely valid.
10-10-2009, 02:14 AM
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Posts: 911
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
What happens when management wants E-190s at Compass? How does an MEC represent this issue without a DFR lawsuit? What about when Compass wants more pay raises than mainline? How do you represent two groups when their interests diverge? Frankly I cannot believe that the NWA MEC set up this loony arrangement in the first place. Compass needs to represent themselves and same with Delta.
Please walk me through your logic on this and how we are more at risk for a DFR lawsuit as opposed to having them independent under the same scenario.
10-10-2009, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by JungleBus
And I cannot believe 13 MEC members were too dumb to realize that a separate LEC would have taken care of these concerns while preserving unity and preventing a further cleaving of 76-seat flying from the pilot group.
BTW, didn't RJDC happen with CMR/ASA being independent MEC's?
10-10-2009, 02:56 AM
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Originally Posted by JungleBus
Knowing this was coming down the pike isn't making me any less angry to hear about it tonight. I really want to know why divestiture of CPS is so important to Moak that he'd force a divisive vote down "party lines" to accomplish it. Publicly he's never come out for it, only said that there are "difficult issues" to consider. A 13-12 vote doesn't sound like those issues have been resolved.
Here's my fear of where we're going from here. None of the ALPA volunteers I've talked to at CPZ are relishing the thought of an independent MEC, and none are planning to run. We know our management too well: old school red tail types who will attack their employees at the first sign of weakness. Being responsible for a newly independent MEC with little support under those circumstances doesn't sound very fun; I fear the election will go to whoever finally steps up and shouts loudest. So far, the loudest shouters have been a small contingent of ex-ATA pilots who were very vocal about DALPA representation being a conflict of interest (they got Moak's ear very quickly). These guys have no interest in flowing to DAL, feel no obligation whatsoever to mainline, and are pretty PO'd at ALPA about what went down at their last airline, and IMHO will, if elected, fight to kill the flowback and won't be shy about chasing more flying, E190 included. They will be representing "present CPZ pilots," not "future DAL pilots."
Basically, we're talking Comair II. I hope it doesn't happen, but if it does you can lay it squarely at Moak's feet.
Here's my fear of where we're going from here. None of the ALPA volunteers I've talked to at CPZ are relishing the thought of an independent MEC, and none are planning to run. We know our management too well: old school red tail types who will attack their employees at the first sign of weakness. Being responsible for a newly independent MEC with little support under those circumstances doesn't sound very fun; I fear the election will go to whoever finally steps up and shouts loudest. So far, the loudest shouters have been a small contingent of ex-ATA pilots who were very vocal about DALPA representation being a conflict of interest (they got Moak's ear very quickly). These guys have no interest in flowing to DAL, feel no obligation whatsoever to mainline, and are pretty PO'd at ALPA about what went down at their last airline, and IMHO will, if elected, fight to kill the flowback and won't be shy about chasing more flying, E190 included. They will be representing "present CPZ pilots," not "future DAL pilots."
Basically, we're talking Comair II. I hope it doesn't happen, but if it does you can lay it squarely at Moak's feet.
I am discouraged by this action of the S side of the MEC. I guess there were too many preconceived notions over DCI for them to get past. If you look at the FNWA and FDAL MEC's they could not have been at further ends of the spectrum on their dealings with their feeder affiliates.
Get your good guys out there and form a MEC and alliance with the DAL pilots that breaks the traditional DAL model. You have lots of support despite this setback.
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