Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-02-2014, 04:37 PM
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Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
Originally Posted by sailingfun
On Delta net reference the post I made I got the same feeling. 777-300 to replace the 747's in the pacific and A330's for the 767 in the Atlantic.
07-02-2014, 04:38 PM
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,180
6 can't be a C-5, it's in the air, not on jacks. Then again, the gear's hangin'. Been there, done that.
How was the cat comp? Didn't make, honey dos.
GF
How was the cat comp? Didn't make, honey dos.
GF
07-02-2014, 04:39 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,356
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
Hearing 777 and 787.
07-02-2014, 04:40 PM
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Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
Originally Posted by gzsg
Don't stop now!
Tell us how it is a win to reduce profit sharing and make the pay banding concession with 4 year freezes.
Or are you giving us line pilots small bites at a time?
Tell us how it is a win to reduce profit sharing and make the pay banding concession with 4 year freezes.
Or are you giving us line pilots small bites at a time?
As far as the rest, ***? Find someone else to make you feel good. I wouldn't support that as constructive to C2015.
07-02-2014, 04:45 PM
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Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
Originally Posted by gzsg
Don't stop now!
Or are you giving us line pilots small bites at a time?
Or are you giving us line pilots small bites at a time?
C'mon, lets grow up some and get serious. The happy meal isn't going to satisfy.
Last edited by SharpestTool; 07-02-2014 at 05:01 PM.
07-02-2014, 04:46 PM
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Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
LOL! Why have someone lower your expectations when you do a great job of doing it yourself?
Forget inflation. Any published number is cooked beyond recognition. Profit sharing is what it is. It is codified in our contract. I personally do not like profit sharing as we further progress in the current business cycle. It has done a great job up to now. That money is real. I know, I spent it. I will provide input that says we need to further monetize it and wind it down. Risk is increasing.
BTW, there is a real good reason why wages in the aggregate do not keep up with inflation. Credit. In a credit constrained world, wages and prices will be stable in real times and will be will be governed by real productivity. In this non-existent world, productivity increases and allows expansion of credit. Equilibrium.
In our real world where credit is completely disconnected from productivity, there is no way to balance rampant monetary inflation over the long term. To measure expectations against the fantasy of Delta pilots somehow finding a way to exist in an alternate monetary universe is naive. We can do better than inflation at times during the business cycle, but we will lag at other times when the wheels must come off the bus.
I am not saying that one should not be cognizant of inflation. Indeed, the opposite is what I prescribe. Just do not expect the ability to capture credit money to outpace its production for any period other than the short term. Your focus should be on channeling surplus credit money into wealth forms that are resistant to monetary inflation. IOW, keeping what you have already saved. That is how to fight and win in this global system of money.
Any time comparing our compensation to an inflation index is wasted time better spent on educating yourself on what to do with your surplus earnings.
Forget inflation. Any published number is cooked beyond recognition. Profit sharing is what it is. It is codified in our contract. I personally do not like profit sharing as we further progress in the current business cycle. It has done a great job up to now. That money is real. I know, I spent it. I will provide input that says we need to further monetize it and wind it down. Risk is increasing.
BTW, there is a real good reason why wages in the aggregate do not keep up with inflation. Credit. In a credit constrained world, wages and prices will be stable in real times and will be will be governed by real productivity. In this non-existent world, productivity increases and allows expansion of credit. Equilibrium.
In our real world where credit is completely disconnected from productivity, there is no way to balance rampant monetary inflation over the long term. To measure expectations against the fantasy of Delta pilots somehow finding a way to exist in an alternate monetary universe is naive. We can do better than inflation at times during the business cycle, but we will lag at other times when the wheels must come off the bus.
I am not saying that one should not be cognizant of inflation. Indeed, the opposite is what I prescribe. Just do not expect the ability to capture credit money to outpace its production for any period other than the short term. Your focus should be on channeling surplus credit money into wealth forms that are resistant to monetary inflation. IOW, keeping what you have already saved. That is how to fight and win in this global system of money.
Any time comparing our compensation to an inflation index is wasted time better spent on educating yourself on what to do with your surplus earnings.
Exactly like C2012, we can plan on a cost neutral C2015. Funding our pay increases with reduced profit sharing. Pay banding concession to wipe out any job gains and produce 2 years of stagnation.
SSDD
07-02-2014, 04:48 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by gzsg
Let me summarize that very fancy load of nonsense.
Exactly like C2012, we can plan on a cost neutral C2015. Funding our pay increases with reduced profit sharing. Pay banding concession to wipe out any job gains and produce 2 years of stagnation.
SSDD
Exactly like C2012, we can plan on a cost neutral C2015. Funding our pay increases with reduced profit sharing. Pay banding concession to wipe out any job gains and produce 2 years of stagnation.
SSDD
Cost neutral.
Same old doughnut talking point.
One trick pony you are.
07-02-2014, 04:50 PM
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Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
Originally Posted by gzsg
Let me summarize that very fancy load of nonsense.
Exactly like C2012, we can plan on a cost neutral C2015. Funding our pay increases with reduced profit sharing. Pay banding concession to wipe out any job gains and produce 2 years of stagnation.
SSDD
Exactly like C2012, we can plan on a cost neutral C2015. Funding our pay increases with reduced profit sharing. Pay banding concession to wipe out any job gains and produce 2 years of stagnation.
SSDD
Good evening.
07-02-2014, 04:58 PM
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Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
Ok, monetizing the remaining profit sharing is smart risk management at this point.
As far as the rest, ***? Find someone else to make you feel good. I wouldn't support that as constructive to C2015.
As far as the rest, ***? Find someone else to make you feel good. I wouldn't support that as constructive to C2015.
The oligopoly raises fares at will.
Giving away one cent of profit sharing would be the mistake of a lifetime. The economy is still lackluster and we are making billions.
We deserve every penny of the profit sharing as a small token toward the billions in life changing concessions we took over the past decade.
Our chapter 11 concessions are no longer necessary. There is zero need for us to fund our own pay increases with concessions in profit sharing or any other area.
I can't for the life of me understand this surrender monkey agenda.
You and the Delta pilots don't need to make any more concessions.
07-02-2014, 05:02 PM
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Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Originally Posted by gzsg
Don't stop now!
Tell us how it is a win to reduce profit sharing and make the pay banding concession with 4 year freezes.
Or are you giving us line pilots small bites at a time?
Tell us how it is a win to reduce profit sharing and make the pay banding concession with 4 year freezes.
Or are you giving us line pilots small bites at a time?
That being said, I have to agree with the point you're making relative to sharpesttool's trial balloon, which has all the merits and characteristics of a fart in church.
We need, and deserve, a very strong contract. Prior to bankruptcy, our share of the pie might have been too much for the long-term survival of the company. We don't have to wonder anymore, because that company was restructured, and was recreated into this powerhouse of a pie-making machine, and that machine is slinging pies everywhere, but not quite enough in our direction.
I don't give a hoot about a C2K that was reached with a dead airline (for all I know, C2K is way too little for this company), or hollow slogans like restoration, because I want what we deserve. What we deserve is a piece of the action that is commensurate with our critical role in keeping the economic engine going. We're short of that goal. We're not getting of the pie on an ongoing basis, and we've already built up a pie deficit.
That's what we need to be focused on. We need to figure out how much of the pie is rightfully ours, while keeping a reasonable balance with other stakeholders, and we need to survey the group to figure out how to split it. The only sort of financial data we need is: how much can the company afford to pay us, and meet normal obligations. Not the ever-changing margin goals (now it's fifteen %?), not the ever-changing debt-targets, not the gravy stock buy-backs. Enough to make a good margin, service the debt at a reasonable interval, and pay a small dividend. THAT is what this should be about.
As far as the side-show goes, I find the timing really bizarre, and frankly suspect. We shouldn't be into this sort of discussion until the surveys are out. Something reeks here.
Sink r8
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