Denny,

I was reading your posts on the WDR with interest. As a new captain constantly flying with new FO's, I find that the way to minimize big mistakes is controlling the introduction of little mistakes, especially early on. I haven't done the CQ CD yet, but there are other publications that don't need to be quoted here, which show that distractions right around pushback time lead to other issues.

I think we're paid to weigh all the information and procedures given to us, and come up with the solution that fits the experience of the aircraft, crew, and push crew, as well as conditions on the ramp.

I'm not good enough yet, that I can afford not to focus on the action outside the aircraft while we push; the FO's aren't good enough yet, that they can comfortably do something else while starting a Maddog engine (since all three of their hands are already busy), and tug drivers aren't yet good enough to guarantee that they won't make a mistake.

Maybe none of us will ever be that "good"? Maybe none of ever should try to be? Certainly, there is no tug driver out there, no matter their level of excellence, that will prevent you from having an accident on YOUR record if THEY do enough damage. I think the threshold for an accident is $50K. You can't buy a winglet for $50K, much less two.

Far from me to criticize others that have a different set of circumstances. It worked better when I was an experienced FO, with TO PERF loaded directly to the box. In my case, for now, I completely share your concerns, and I operate your way.

 

That wasn't a policy at NWA. Do you have a manual reference for that here at Delta?

If the FAA gave him a 30 day suspension of his licenses, that would have to have been for an FAR violation. What FAR says you have to be redispatched if you return to the gate for any reason?

Carl

 

FOM Vol.1 page 5.2.3 FDR Amendments. Bullet point #8.

Also see bullet point #12 on 5.2.4. That is the catchall.

If you generate an IN time at your departure airport, that is considered a RTG.

 

Thanks Just.

Now all I need from Sailingfun is the FAR that states the same thing.

Sailingfun?

Carl

 

The FOM is a binding document as far as the FAA is concerned. The company requires you to be re dispatched in that document. You have been given the exact pages.

 

So the FAA can give me time off or yank my ticket for not wearing my hat because it's contrary to the FOM?

Try again.

 

There are elements of the FOM that are regulatory. There are elements that aren't. Some are set by Delta and ALPA, and become regulatory. The best example of something that is negotiated that becomes the rule covered by FAR is 3.2.16. "Release Time" was negotiated, but governs our FDPs. Other airlines have different lengths of time for "Release". Those times govern.

 

The FAA would not suspend someone's ticket for 30 days because of an FOM violation as you alleged. I think you made that up.

Carl

 

Well first Carl I never said it was a Fom violation or that it happened at Delta. They most certainly did however suspend his ticket for 30 days.
A friend from NW tells me they also required a new release if you returned to the gate. It's pretty standard at every airline and yes the FAA does require a 121 flight be released by dispatch. Again you have the reference at Delta.

 

That sounds like complete chickenstuff. It that story was true, I'm thinking your friend is telling you only the part he wants you to hear, and leaving out a few pesky details (like departing with an open MEL that requires dispatcher approval or something similar).

I've never once in 18 years here actually met someone who got the proverbial 30 days off. I'm sure that it happens but it would have to be in cases far more egregious than not getting a new release following a quick gate return. In your friend's case, was there no NASA form or ASAP recourse?

I remember once we left the gate and after 10 feet of movement returned to the gate to resolve a passenger issue. Five minutes after that we were under way again. Are you saying we were at risk of a 30 day ticket suspension? I'm just not buying that.