RockyBoy

That is great. I would bet most of us do live within our means. However, shouldn't the "means" of an airline pilot be in the same ball park as a Doctor, Laywer, Dentist, etc.????

Right now our means are well below what they should be given who we are and what we do every day at work.

Sink r8

By my math, that would mean we'd average 6:48 a day. No idea how SW would pull that sort of numbers on average, but something's gotta give somewhere, for those numbers to work.

On the 88, I think we're pushing the envelope with what we have now. There are a couple guys in my category that can do 11 1-day trips a month, and accomplish it. But I can't see how you'd design any significant numbers of commutable 3-days that averaged 6:48/day.

I think we're reaching the limits of what we can do in terms of time per day, and total time per month, and sustainable months over a long period of time. There are plenty of areas where we can move up marginally in terms of credit (maybe things like door-pay, vacation, training credit, etc.).

So, rather than pushing more flying into each day, I'd like to start limiting how much flying we're submitting our bodies to, over time (i.e. a cap). I'd also like to see how much more advancement there would be, if we removed loopholes that let guys fly to FAR's. That would be a huge QOL advancement.

I'd be for a cap, and rates that make the cap feasible. Beyond that, I think we should focus on the ADG, the trips where duty periods > calendar days, and revisit the DPA . As far as packing more ADG into a next contract, I think that 's going to continue the trend to longer trips, with really ugly first and last days.

Bottom line for me is that I'd be open to any suggestion that is QOL-centric, but the crap they're trying to pack into a trip is starting to overwhelm the benefits of being more productive each day, and too much time off is spent trying to get back to normal from the days at work. Compound that with the higher ALV's/TLV's, and I think we have a system that's screaming for actual QOL improvements.

iaflyer

Non-commutable trips are not necessarily a by-product of a higher ADG. In my opinion, it's that the trips are poorly constructed.

Case in point on my last 3 day trip - the first two days were flew 7.1 hours each day, but the last day we didn't leave the overnight until 5pm, and flew 3:20 back to base, getting in at 8:45.

And before you say it, there are other flights we could of flown that left before ours, 4 other departures that day on our equipment to various cities , or DH to ATL on one of the 6 departures from that city to fly any number of other trips. Yes, it was more productive because of a higher ADG, but not every day was productive.

I feel like the pilots are being forced to choose between QOL and pay in order to make satisfy marketing's demands. I think our next contract is going to cost the company 2% a year - we will be a higher PAY raise than that (which is what I'm guessing is the survey's #1 items), but we're going to trade QOL, efficiency, and things like pay banding, sick leave, or other items for it.

sailingfun

What do you think the average Docter, Lawyer, Dentist makes relative to the average Delta pilot?

badflaps

With the 75 hour cap, that is what you got paid. Anything over that went into the "bank", basically an interest free loan to DAL. The beauty of a large bank was vacation month, dropping trips and still coming up with 75. At least that is how I remember it, sorta.

scambo1

Sailing you should've just pm-ed that rather than opening up that can a whoop a$$.

Personally, I like the idea of deferred compensation.

Sink r8

I don't think we specify in our contract that trips have to be "well-constructed", that the company would have to comply with. If we want to add something in, we need to discuss what that means, exactly. I think we could conceivably increase the ADG further, or add/modify other parameters. You just need to tell me what those are.

As far as your last trip, I don't know how they could have modified it in a way that changed your departure for your benefit, or the impact on another rotation. I'd have no way to tell.

It is my understanding that the system is trying to design the least amount of credit time. So you need to look at a number of trips to get a sense of the impact of certain changes. Based on what I'm seeing, since FAR 117 + higher ADG incentivizes and permits longer days, that's exactly what we're getting. Logic tells me that this means less commutable options. The latest memo on the 7ER and 73N trips validates it.

sailingfun

I took a quick look on the Internet and it looks like the average Delta pilot makes well above the average in all 3 of those professions. In 2013 the average Delta pilot made 180k. Going to be right at 200k in 2014.
Edit: Doctors are close to us ranging from 120k to 250k depending on the practice. Most from 140 to 200k

Elliot

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics - U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (May, 2014)

Lawyer's Mean Annual Wage - $133,470
Lawyer's Median Annual Wage - $114,970

Pilot's Mean Annual Wage - $131,760
Pilot's Median Annual Wage - $118,140

Family & General Practitioner Mean Annual Wage - $186,320
Family & General Practitioner Median Annual Wage - $180,180

** I wouldn't say "well above" Sailing, but the statistics don't show us too far removed.

Sink r8

BTW, I don't think anyone specified what a cap might look like. In my mind, it couldn't be lower than the top end of the LCW. Isn't the TLV 79? That would mean a cap of 86:30. Is that really so crazy?

We could even make it TLV + 10, as far as I'm concerned, i.e. get an 89-hour cap back in the contract. With a bow-wave, mind you. That would mean averaging 89-hours throughout the year.

Watch how many guys speak up against it...