newKnow

I told you, Satch! If we pass this TA, I'm all over the late night sim sessions.

I'll make sure you are on the honored guest list when I open up my beach bar. That will put us one step closer to solving those problems. But, probably two steps further away from anyone ever listening to us -- which is fine by me.


Take care and fly safe!

JamesBond

I have talked about this before too, but I was on a jumpseat last night with a new guy and I asked if he knew about the Full Service Bank. I won't go into it here, but if you new guys don't know about it, you should look into what it is and what it can do for you. You can still get some benefit before the new contract will take effect, but you only have December to take the most advantage. I would say that an (public math) 81% ROI is pretty damned good, but what do I know.

iaflyer

I think your numbers are off... if someone puts ten hours into the bank today, then takes it out in January, they are only getting a 3% pay raise on that money. Because any flying in 2016 already is being paid at the higher rate, if the TA passes.

Yes, it's 3% for two months, so the rate I suppose is around 18%, but the dollar amount isn't that high.

JamesBond

I was looking at going from 1st year pay to second. And I DID caveat my post by claiming math in public.

TED74

The effects of this overblown, and I don't think most people actually run the math. Since you deposit/withdraw hours and not pay, you are really just working NOW instead of LATER. When you bank hours now (in anticipation of cashing them in later), you're essentially just flying for tomorrow's rates today. Since you could also have just not flown those banked hours (worth an identical paycheck), flying them layer yields the same overall income.

If you get excited over a hundred dollars or two after taxes, feel free to celebrate...many people will see even less benefit (I encourage everyone to run their own math).

Where I think the bank benefits most relates to upgrading/converting when you can fly hours at today's SENIORITY (high in your current category) instead of tomorrow's SENIORITY (at the bottom of a new category). Presumably, the hours you fly when seniority is higher are "easier"...what that looks like in your own circumstances.

JamesBond

You are correct that you are banking hours and not pay... sort of. First year pay currently $70.52. Actually why don't we go with the 1/1/17 rate of $85.71. So you bank 10 hours or the equivalent of $857.10. I'll use a 717 FO. 2nd year pay will be $114.61. That's $1146.10 or a difference of $289.00. (7ER FOs would see a difference of $461.00) Yeah, it's a couple of hundred bucks, but the ROI is pretty good if you use those hours in other ways. For example, you can use them to "fill up" and fly that greenslip for 2x pay if you get one in a month where you happen to be short.

I guess it comes down to whether or not you are an investor/saver. If Mr 4 month captain would have had a full bank (not really possible), his ROI would be off scale high. $70 to $229.

So here's a rhetorical question, and I really don't want anyone to answer but what are you going to do with the difference in pay you will see in January? Spend it? Invest it? Set it on fire? It's just food for thought.

TED74

.

117 2nd year FO pay is 33% higher than first year...where did that 81% ROI come from? There's also a TVM consideration and a tax rate dilemma, both of which eat into any theoretical ROI.

I'm not saying it can't help, but more often than not I think people overestimate the benefits of banking hours.

To revisit your scenario:

Pilot A flies 90 hours at rate 1, banks 10 and therefore only gets paid 80. He then upgrades, flies 80 and gets paid 90 at the new/higher rate. He's happy.

Pilot B flies 80 hours at rate 1, and gets paid the same 80 hours pilot A did. She then upgrades, actually flies 90 and gets paid 90 at the new rate. She's also happy.

Both pilots flew 170 hours and got paid the same. HE just flew more in the first month and SHE flew more in the second month. Like I said...the bank let's you fly NOW instead of LATER.

The real benefit is that HE flew more on presumably better pre-upgrade seniority in the "cheaper" category. SHE likely worked harder to fly a 90 hour month in the new category.

I agree, topping off / hitting GS trigger is the best benefit.

404yxl

Banking the hours on years 1-3 is a no brainer just due to the large increases. Plus banking gives you more hours to greenslip while working less than what is required to hit the trigger. You can't lose when banking in those situations unless the stick market gains a ton. You may not be able to pickup what you want in the future as well.

iaflyer

Another item to think about is profit sharing - is 2016 profit sharing going to be more than 2017 profit sharing? If you defer that income to 2017, you might get more with your hourly rate, but lose some with a lower profit sharing.

Denny Crane

Ok, a slight change of subject here. I'm probably going to start using FedEx or UPS a lot more here over the next few months. Do we still get a significant discount on FedEx? If so, do I just have to take my Delta ID to a FedEx store to get the discount? I'm just unsure how it works. Any help is appreciated.

Denny