Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-21-2009 | 01:53 AM
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From: A-320A
And yes DAL-N has the earlier retirements. I will have the same relative percentage pre-merger that I have post merger, it will just happen 3.2 years earlier. It is the same line just slightly prior to when it would have been with DAL-S.
12-21-2009 | 04:09 AM
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From: Legacy FO
Actually, ACL you bring up a very good point. After speaking to our NWA jumpseaters, it is clear, they do not understand the bid system. Rightfully so. It is new to them.
I even made the comment to one fella, "I see a lawsuit coming after this bid gets released" because I think enough will dork up their bidding and will lose a seat / position because of it.
I even made the comment to one fella, "I see a lawsuit coming after this bid gets released" because I think enough will dork up their bidding and will lose a seat / position because of it.
12-21-2009 | 04:20 AM
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What is the most common thing that confuses the Northies you've spoken with?
12-21-2009 | 04:38 AM
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From: Legacy FO
Do not forget your Delta history of 100s of your pilots retiring early i think up to 1500-2000 guys giving the Delta guys there now a great move up in positions that you would not have had they not retired early. This did not happen on the NWA side. WE still have most all of our older guys including a lot of over 60 guys now. Cut off the top 1000 guys at old NWA and move every one up and you would not have a guy like me with 24 years seniority waiting to get a widebody capt seat. We did not want this merger nor are we moving bases and aircraft around. It is your and our new company DELTA that is calling the shots so put the blame where it belongs-----they are calling the shots not south guys or north guys.
We are just along for the ride and it is going to be bumpy for a while. Every guy here can tell you what he is loosing somehow. I have a long list but I will not bore you with it because I know you don't really care. Good luck to us all!!!
We are just along for the ride and it is going to be bumpy for a while. Every guy here can tell you what he is loosing somehow. I have a long list but I will not bore you with it because I know you don't really care. Good luck to us all!!!
I wanrt to start off by saying I don't have any real numbers handy to refute your statement, but I will say that I think it misses part of the story. I'm fairly sure percentage-wise f-DAL had more widebody positions than f-NWA. But, probably notso much that you can say that NWA wan't a widebody airline. I think the real difference you are seeing, to a certian extent, the mindset of the groups.
I think for a larger portion of the NWA group, widebody international stuff is king. So, I think part of the disparity you are seeing is that more senior f-NWA guys bid widebody international stuff over everything else.
Just using my NWA seniority as an example:
I've been here over 14 years.
3 years ago was the first time I cold have held 320A.
2 1/2 years ago was the first time I could hold 744B.
So, I know just a few years ago, for six months the bottom 320 captain at NWA could not hold 744 FO. It's probably been that way off and on since I've been here.
When I was on the 757, I flew with a handfull of captains who would contemplate bidding 744 FO. I know of one guy, for sure, who did it.
Also, at a certain point in longeivty, our 747 s/o's made more than our 757 FO's and our 744 FO's made more than our DC9 CA's.
So, it's not so much that we didn't have the widebody positions, it's just that we had more senior people who wanted them.
TJMTC.
Whatever happens, like Keenster said, good luck to us all.
New K Now
I think for a larger portion of the NWA group, widebody international stuff is king. So, I think part of the disparity you are seeing is that more senior f-NWA guys bid widebody international stuff over everything else.
Just using my NWA seniority as an example:
I've been here over 14 years.
3 years ago was the first time I cold have held 320A.
2 1/2 years ago was the first time I could hold 744B.
So, I know just a few years ago, for six months the bottom 320 captain at NWA could not hold 744 FO. It's probably been that way off and on since I've been here.
When I was on the 757, I flew with a handfull of captains who would contemplate bidding 744 FO. I know of one guy, for sure, who did it.
Also, at a certain point in longeivty, our 747 s/o's made more than our 757 FO's and our 744 FO's made more than our DC9 CA's.
So, it's not so much that we didn't have the widebody positions, it's just that we had more senior people who wanted them.
TJMTC.
Whatever happens, like Keenster said, good luck to us all.
New K Now
It makes no difference what happened before the merger and what move-ups DAL pilots enjoyed before. The reality is, when the merger was announced, Delta had 240-ish widebodies and Northwest had 140-ish. This is why DAL had fellas with lower seniority numbers on bigger equipment.
Reality is, NWA pilots got a big pay raise and access to way more widebody positions than the DAL pilots did (particular those that weren't fenced). And since there are NWA pilots who've been waiting a long time chomping at the bit to get their hands on big metal, now we see how DAL pilots are going to lose in the long term.
NewKNow and to everyone else at NWA who feels disparaged by my comment. I apologize. Of course NWA was a widebody airline, my comments came off wrong.
When the MOAB results is announced, we'll see how each side makes out.
12-21-2009 | 04:44 AM
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From: 737 Capt
There are surpluses on the 744B because you converted those positions to 744As.
Yes, I agree with you DAL330drvr, we are all being affected. But I honestly think, and no this isn't meant to be mean, derogatory, inflamatory, or anything else towars the northies, but I think you guys clearly have made out in this merger.
I think we will see much more fDAL guys losing key positions than fNWA pilots.
Time will tell.
Yes, I agree with you DAL330drvr, we are all being affected. But I honestly think, and no this isn't meant to be mean, derogatory, inflamatory, or anything else towars the northies, but I think you guys clearly have made out in this merger.
I think we will see much more fDAL guys losing key positions than fNWA pilots.
Time will tell.
Bottom line is we are all affected in some way by this bid. Some guys will make out nicely while others will lose. Either way it is what it is we are just employees of the worlds largest airline and I hope that all stay employed!
12-21-2009 | 04:45 AM
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From: Legacy FO
Everyone I spoke to seemed to think that the guys who have displacement notices on the 320 would automatically get MD80/90s. These are folks without a position so they must find one that their seniority can hold. It might be the incoming MD88s, it might not, depending on how seniority plays out.
12-21-2009 | 04:49 AM
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From: Legacy FO
I will need to run numbers after the AE but so far all the 747-200 guys are gone or going, and now with this AE 63 744 B positions are gone. These are removed positions not positions moved to another base and they are also the 2 highest paying categories..... Combine this with the 330 not being fenced and I believe the North side will be affected more at least percentage wise.
Bottom line is we are all affected in some way by this bid. Some guys will make out nicely while others will lose. Either way it is what it is we are just employees of the worlds largest airline and I hope that all stay employed!
Bottom line is we are all affected in some way by this bid. Some guys will make out nicely while others will lose. Either way it is what it is we are just employees of the worlds largest airline and I hope that all stay employed!
I agree 1000% haha. I am very very happy to have a job and I still can't believe to this day that we, the bottom feeders, haven't been furloughed.
And I still think management is smoking crack with the staffing report which show us being short. But wow, am I going to be pleasantly surprised if they are correct.
12-21-2009 | 04:50 AM
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From: Legacy FO
Also, we're very close to having over 2 million views to this thread.
12-21-2009 | 04:52 AM
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I think he meant we 01 hires will have one before we retire vs NOT having it at all. I'm not SO sure with the lack of movement. Hell, I just want to stay off reserve in ATL on the 88 and I'm worried!!! ( and I was hired in early 01. )
Depends on how many folks chase the 765 I guess...
Depends on how many folks chase the 765 I guess...
12-21-2009 | 05:24 AM
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From: 737 Capt
The 63 744B positions are the result of an increase in A positions due to NWA coming up to par with DAL staffing requirements. This is not a loss, but the result of a gain to NWA pilots.
I agree 1000% haha. I am very very happy to have a job and I still can't believe to this day that we, the bottom feeders, haven't been furloughed.
And I still think management is smoking crack with the staffing report which show us being short. But wow, am I going to be pleasantly surprised if they are correct.
I agree 1000% haha. I am very very happy to have a job and I still can't believe to this day that we, the bottom feeders, haven't been furloughed.
And I still think management is smoking crack with the staffing report which show us being short. But wow, am I going to be pleasantly surprised if they are correct.
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