georgetg

And that is exactly why we need to keep our eyes on the ball.
Why not continue:

Would you be worried now?

Cheers
George

georgetg

...a twist in the fabric of space where time becomes a loop...

(you link is self referring...)

Cheers
George

finis72

Why dont you read my whole post before you go off half cocked.It is a very complex issue. Yea, AA's scope is better but it isn't doing the bottom 2000 pilots at AA any good.Maybe if they had more feed maybe those pilots would be still working,maybe not.I don't have the facts to argue either way but I've noticed on this forum facts are not needed,just jump on your fellow pilot because facts are boring.it's much cooler to engage your mouth before you engage your brain.

vprMatrix

Faster than re-posting

The data is still good...

Mesabah

The problem is outsourcing has more winners than losers.....Management wins, ALPA national wins, the most senior pilots win, the senior pilots at the regionals win, and the regional management wins. The losers are only the employees that get stuck at the bottom of the mainline or regional list. Why would Moak want to bring scope back in house for a concession when he could ask DAL to finance his pension if he gives up more scope for them?

I've come to the conclusion that being a junior pilot sucks balls......

DogWhisperer

Curious....I'm not the sharpest bowling ball in the toolshed but have a thought. During furlough, I flew as a contractor for a Fortune 100 flight department. This company had previously operated a flight department for over 27 years. When the last merger occured, the decision was made to shut the it down and eventually it was outsourced. When asking the CEO if there was a desire to eventually bring it back in house, he responded "why should I? It doesn't make sense financially to do so." He pointed out that all they had to do was cut a check to the "lift providerer" at the end of the month and everything was provided. Further, by having the department contracted out that they had the ability to decuct the operation from the corporate taxes. Additionally, the liabilty for any incidents was now isolated to the "lift provider". This inabled them to dodge any lawsuits associated with crashes, HR issues, etc. My question is does this apply to the various entities providing the DCI? If so, it would go far to explain the insanity of the RJ explosion.

firstmob

Have not heard anything lately about the MD-90 or JFK terminal deals, so is no news good news?

80ktsClamp

The JFK deal was stated to be cleared up in december at the very earliest.

acl65pilot

You hit the fricken nail on the head. When AMR bought TWA they were still dealing with that little acquisition of Reno AIr. When TWA was bought they brought all of the pilots on board, and in effect took TWA's JFK ops out of the equation, and shrank STL.
Along comes the aftermath of 9-11.
I say take the TWA pilots and the jobs of the STL base out of the mix, compare the fleet sizes of AMR and DAL from 2001 to 2009 and you have a much clear picture.
The TWA pilots were stapled to the bottom of the AMR list sans a few 100 so they took the brunt of the inefficiencies of their route structure and their flying. It appears to me, and I will get the data when I have time, but taking all of that in to consideration makes this furlough argument moot.

As for DAL hiring in 2007/08 they needed bodies because they had trimmed their workforce to a bare bones operation with the furloughs then the early outs. They then decided that it made more sense to fly a 777 13hs a segment than to fly 13 one hours segments. Simple fact is that we took birds that had the domestic staffing equation applied to them, and threw them on to the international staffing equation. AMR, CAL and UAUA did not have to do this since they already had these jets doing what we had just decided to do.
Take the ER's, and the new 777's convert them to three and four man crews and you come up with about 700 extra bodies needed. Works well.

As for why AMR has shrank. Well look at us, we did it before them, we did not just acquire a very inefficient airline and all of their pilots roster. They did, and were grossly overstaffed for a rational route structure given their purchase. CAL has pilots on the street because they rationalized their 737 fleet, and those guys will be coming back. UAUA has pilot on furlough for many reasons, but they are rationalizing their fleet too. Will we? Who knows but our rationalization of our mainline fleet will occur in an upturn and growing economy whereas these airlines rationalized their fleets in the last two recessions.

acl65pilot

That is part of it, but the fact is that when DCI metal is lost and their are damages with it, they are going to go after the ticket provider too, as they have deeper pockets.

Also DCI expansion could be explained away by one big Band Aid for the 100 seat issue. It is a lot easier to have "Risk Sharing Partners" with these small jets that DAL and every other airline would love to dump once their is a true DC-9 replacement on the market. With having contract for the lift and others signing the dotted line for the leases it allows DAL to keep that liability off the balance sheet. Ugly, not good for our careers but from a corporate perspective it makes a ton of sense.
Think if you were a businessman and knew that you only wanted to use a device for 10 to 15 years, would you buy it or outsource it so you could just not renew the contract when it came due? I know what I would do.

From a pilot perspective it stinks as we have seen our careers stagnate and move backwards. For the company it isolates them from 20 billion dollars in liquidity that they did not have to come up with.

So it short, yes, but DCI has served more than one purpose for DAL.