Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-04-2009, 06:55 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 917
11-04-2009, 07:26 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 799
I also agree it is a complex issue, but how can you say the scope at AA has not done the bottom 2000 guys any good? If AA had the ability to have 255 70-76 seat RJ's I guarantee you they would have ALOT less MD-80's and more guys furloughed. If your talking about turboprops flying into small towns and 50-seaters flying into small cities within 500 miles, I can almost buy the argument that the feed will create mainline jobs. However, when you have 70-76 seat RJ's flying routes up to 1500 miles, you are not "feeding" mainline, you are "replacing" mainline. Also, do you think CAL would still be flying 737-500's if they could fly 76 seat RJ's? Lots of mainline jobs still at CAL due to their scope not allowing ANY 70-76 seaters. Scope protects jobs for guys at the bottom of the list, there is no way it creates furloughs.
On the argument of facts, nobody but the company and ALPA have the ability to show us those facts. Neither of them are willing to show us the facts, so until we get an MEC that has some balls to get them, we'll just keep on complaining without them. I guess it wouldn't matter anyways because according to the MEC, we aren't smart enough to know what would be best for us even if we did have the facts.
On the argument of facts, nobody but the company and ALPA have the ability to show us those facts. Neither of them are willing to show us the facts, so until we get an MEC that has some balls to get them, we'll just keep on complaining without them. I guess it wouldn't matter anyways because according to the MEC, we aren't smart enough to know what would be best for us even if we did have the facts.
11-04-2009, 09:57 PM
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Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 129
As we are in the middle of 3 elections, coming close to SOC, and the first combined AE is right around the corner I feel like I need more information then I am getting.
I am a North pilot, Council 1 and I try to keep a informed as possible, but it seems to be much more difficult since the merger. Prior to the merger I could go on the NWA ALPA website and select any of the LECs and read the information that they were giving out to their council. Did the South guys have this available to them in the past? If not how did you get information out of other Councils?
One other item that concerns me is that DAL MEC wants all the LEC communications run through them prior to publication. For a reference, this was what was said at the last Council 1 LEC meeting by one of the LEC Officers to the group.
Do not take this as a shot at the South guys I just want to learn the ins and outs of getting information from different perspectives.
I am a North pilot, Council 1 and I try to keep a informed as possible, but it seems to be much more difficult since the merger. Prior to the merger I could go on the NWA ALPA website and select any of the LECs and read the information that they were giving out to their council. Did the South guys have this available to them in the past? If not how did you get information out of other Councils?
One other item that concerns me is that DAL MEC wants all the LEC communications run through them prior to publication. For a reference, this was what was said at the last Council 1 LEC meeting by one of the LEC Officers to the group.
Do not take this as a shot at the South guys I just want to learn the ins and outs of getting information from different perspectives.
11-05-2009, 12:52 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
WHAT? How do you figure?
WHAT? How do you figure? I'd say its the complete opposite. Look how everybody blames ALPA for the current outsourcing. Well, at least on this one I understand your opinion, but disagree with it.
11-05-2009, 06:11 AM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Some of the guys who are in the queue ahead of you may not be legal for a trip that pops up.
Example: You're on for 3 days and there's another 3-day person ahead of you (because of seniority, RAW score, whatever). It's possible that person flew the day before. If a trip pops up and it falls within his domicile rest, the trip goes to you. Also, a person may be showing available that day, but he may be finishing a trip that morning. For all practical purposes, he can't be used that day even though he shows available.
This happened to me once. I got done with a 4-day trip which got back around 9 in the morning. I had one more day left and when I looked at the reserve availability list for the next day, I was at the bottom of the list with around 8 1-day guys ahead of me. The weather was good, no IROPs anywhere so I thought there was no way I was going to get used.
I commuted home and my butt wasn't parked on the couch for more than a minute when scheduling called with a trip early the next morning. When I asked the scheduler about all the guys ahead of me, I found none was legal for it. They were either already flying and were not getting in until late at night, which wouldn't give them enough rest, or they were looking at a 30/7 conflict. So I had to turn right around and commute back to Atlanta that evening.
Unfortunately, the reserve availability list doesn't show any of that. I don't put any stock in my position on the list. There are too many variables that will make a person ahead of you not legal for a trip. This is one big gripe I have about the system. It needs to be much clearer or transparent so you know where you really stand so you can plan better. I don't mind working, but I also don't want to have to hang around if I really don't have to.
Example: You're on for 3 days and there's another 3-day person ahead of you (because of seniority, RAW score, whatever). It's possible that person flew the day before. If a trip pops up and it falls within his domicile rest, the trip goes to you. Also, a person may be showing available that day, but he may be finishing a trip that morning. For all practical purposes, he can't be used that day even though he shows available.
This happened to me once. I got done with a 4-day trip which got back around 9 in the morning. I had one more day left and when I looked at the reserve availability list for the next day, I was at the bottom of the list with around 8 1-day guys ahead of me. The weather was good, no IROPs anywhere so I thought there was no way I was going to get used.
I commuted home and my butt wasn't parked on the couch for more than a minute when scheduling called with a trip early the next morning. When I asked the scheduler about all the guys ahead of me, I found none was legal for it. They were either already flying and were not getting in until late at night, which wouldn't give them enough rest, or they were looking at a 30/7 conflict. So I had to turn right around and commute back to Atlanta that evening.
Unfortunately, the reserve availability list doesn't show any of that. I don't put any stock in my position on the list. There are too many variables that will make a person ahead of you not legal for a trip. This is one big gripe I have about the system. It needs to be much clearer or transparent so you know where you really stand so you can plan better. I don't mind working, but I also don't want to have to hang around if I really don't have to.
I know this is from some time ago, but I wanted to respond to it.
As you look at the Reserve Availability List (RAL) for each day, you see a lot of pilot on there, so you think you are fine. As you state you can get hosed if you do not understand what this means. For example, I got done with a four day yesterday but I was still in yesterdays bucked. Why?
Well, I got done with enough time left in the calender day to get my required rest and go back on LC/SC prior to 2400. When that happens someone will show up on the RAL even though they are flying that day.
So, if you want to make certain of the availability of those in front of you, you would have to see when their last duty period is. It nails a lot of guys in the one and two day buckets. There are plenty of pilots that get in and show in these buckets that will be illegal for most trips. The reason they are there and remain after scheduling rationalizes these lists, is because they are avail for duty some time that day after the required rest period.
Hope that explanation helps.
11-05-2009, 06:32 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
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Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Anybody going to be in the ATL crewroom during SD's appearance?
11-05-2009, 06:37 AM
Get's Every Day Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,860
Worthless
So now that we all have the secret decoder ring the bottom line is that the list is absolutely WORTHLESS in giving you a feel for where you stand in the list and your chances of getting assigned a rotation. GREAT! Did I mention I love the new DAL way of doing things? 
11-05-2009, 06:49 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Which is why the new Reserve system needs to become "Old" ASAP. Essentially, there is no transparency, and no value in seniority except for choosing days off. Even worse, the process for selecting a pilot among several who are legal, is often at the scheduler's discretion, depending on what Days of Availability grouping he/she wants to use.
11-05-2009, 06:52 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
1. Have PCS runs every hour so you get more open time "churn" and have more than three shots per day at changing your schedule.
2. Produce a GS/WS availability list that shows who has a GS/WS request in for a particular day.
3. Have the reserve availability list for the entire month not just the current day and the next day. On the reserve availability list place the time that the particular person is available for duty so we could have a better idea of who scheduling can and cannot use on a particular day at a particular time.
These would cost very little, if any, for the IT guys to make available and would make some very good improvements to the entire system.
Or we could throw e-crew away and pull the DAL-N system out of the closet and go to that one. I've heard it was much better than e-crew.
11-05-2009, 06:53 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Its not worthless although I have to admit I've seen much better systems in the RJ world, FAR BETTER than icrew or ecrew could ever become.
But I know when I'm next to be called based on looking at what the pilots ahead of me in my bucket of days available have been doing.
Sometimes it just means looking the day before on the reserve availability list to see if they were used, if they had SC and that might prevent them from being used and sometimes I have to look at their schedule to see if they're currently on a trip. If you're 3-day ends tomorrow and you're on reserve you'll show available. So between looking at open time, look back, and knowing that trips seem to amazingly come open if they touch a weekend then you know you're going to fly. Sometimes I ask for SC, sometimes I avoid, sometimes I jump on a trip with a lower RAW and y-slip and sometimes I don't want to be found.
Also, 30-7, getting everyone to 69.9 hours, etc., days left, SC status, etc. all plays into the mix. Its not very arbitrary, I've called before when I didn't get something I want and they're explination was legit and you have to take it.
Ideally though, it would just come out and say on the Reserve Availability List what the pilots last assignment was. Then you'd know better, but again not completely.
Actually, ideally we'd scrap E/I crew for something better. And get rid of the dump clip art. Annoying sounds, the requirement to find the little box and put a Y in it, or the fact I can't see a trip on open time and just click on it and say yes, please G-slip, W-slip, Y-slip said trip. Simple stuff.
But I know when I'm next to be called based on looking at what the pilots ahead of me in my bucket of days available have been doing.
Sometimes it just means looking the day before on the reserve availability list to see if they were used, if they had SC and that might prevent them from being used and sometimes I have to look at their schedule to see if they're currently on a trip. If you're 3-day ends tomorrow and you're on reserve you'll show available. So between looking at open time, look back, and knowing that trips seem to amazingly come open if they touch a weekend then you know you're going to fly. Sometimes I ask for SC, sometimes I avoid, sometimes I jump on a trip with a lower RAW and y-slip and sometimes I don't want to be found.
Also, 30-7, getting everyone to 69.9 hours, etc., days left, SC status, etc. all plays into the mix. Its not very arbitrary, I've called before when I didn't get something I want and they're explination was legit and you have to take it.
Ideally though, it would just come out and say on the Reserve Availability List what the pilots last assignment was. Then you'd know better, but again not completely.
Actually, ideally we'd scrap E/I crew for something better. And get rid of the dump clip art. Annoying sounds, the requirement to find the little box and put a Y in it, or the fact I can't see a trip on open time and just click on it and say yes, please G-slip, W-slip, Y-slip said trip. Simple stuff.
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