It would be a two way flow across the fence. DCI pilots would flow up to mainline equipment in times of hiring, mainline pilots would flow down to DCI equipment (with seniority) in times of furloughing. In the event of flowing down, it would be into spots vacated by flow ups. Flow ups go to the bottom of the mainline list.

 

Because they were a counterpart, both legacy carriers. DCI carriers are not legacy carriers, you get hired with less time there and build it to get hired at the legacy.

I'm against it.

And that is absolutely wrong, any mainline pilot who thinks the regional guys can't do the same job is greatly mistaken. I'll agree with you there.

BAD MOVE. Especially considering you think that Delta mainline pilots look down on you, don't look down on anybody that Delta would find qualified to fly here either. Although it'd be a very odd situation to only have 300 hours, normally I see triple that when they come here.

And you're exactly right ACL.

Bar is smart.

 

Here, this will fix all the problems without dealing with who gets what and complicated flow agreements. Should make Joe happy:

1st step is DALPA deciding to take back all DL flying.

2nd negotiate that no DCI contract will be renewed.

Allow for contract extentions of 1 month / 5 aircraft as mainline ramps up flying.

3rd interview and hire pilots who whish to apply to fly as many of these aircraft Delta wishes to maintain.

In 10 years the problem will be solved.

 

I hear you, and to me, the bottom line is recapturing the flying. I think that's more important than holding grudges against the RJDC crowd, or Lawson's and co's treatment of the DAL furloughees (and I was one).

If the only way to get it done is via the Compass only route, then so be it. Personally, I'd like to do it and keep as many folks -if not all- employed as possible during the process. There are alot more guys at the regionals now with families to support than when I was there.

The folks that have caused the most heartburn are -I hope- the small majority nearer to the top of the lists, and don't represent the collective.

 

A slight change of topic, back to the feasibility of operating “regional” aircraft at mainline. Pick it apart or add to it as you will.


Slow and Alfa, you both seem to have better access to internal information so you can speak to whether or not my numbers are even in the ballpark. My goal is to find out how much is would cost for mainline Delta pilots to operate the CRJs (CR2/CR7/CR9) that Comair flew in 2008.


Since getting these numbers from public information is not the easiest task I have tried to use numbers that are on the high side. I am simply looking at crew cost for the comparison. With the pass through agreements Delta is paying actual cost for a good portion of the daily operating cost of the aircraft. In addition, Delta is covering the entire cost of operation plus providing enough extra for these Comair or any other regional carrier to make a profit.


I do not have access to Comair's net profit for 2008 but I did get their operating margins off of the BTS site for 2008:
Q1-----7.8%-----26M
Q2-----9.7%-----35M
Q3-----9.0%-----30M
Q4-----7.1%-----18M
AVG---8.4% TTL---109M


Other information / assumptions for Comair 2008 from TTL Crew Cost (AvDailing) and Block Hours (WolframAlfa):
272,000 Block Hours for the year.
81,000 Block Hours for CR7/CR9 @ $319/Hr total crew cost
190,400 Block Hours for CR2 @ $285 Hr total crew cost


These numbers result in a total crew cost of apx $80,000,00 for 2008


Delta reports a total crew cost for the M88 of $472 and for the 738 of $577 for 2008. I rounded up the M88 cost to $500 and multiplied by the total Comair BHs.


This is $136,000,000 which means that mainline could operate the CR2/CR7/CR9 fleet at the same pay rates and YOS as the MD88 for apx 56M more than Comair.


Delta currently has pay rates for the CR9 that are 64% of the 738 rate. 64% of the 738 crew cost is
$370 if we round this up to $400 and multiply by Comair's total block hours we get: $108,800,00.


This results in a difference of $28.8M for mainline to operate all three fleet types for the current CR9 mainline rates using very liberal assumptions. In fact based on the numbers I tend to think that we could operate all of Comair's CRJ type aircraft at the current CR9 mainline rates for $18M - $20M more in total pilot compensation.


Again, I don't know what Comair netted for 2008 but compared to Comair's Operating Profit for 2008 I think that mainline flying of Rjs should be doable. Certainly there is evidence that all aircraft larger than 50 seats should be at mainline.

 

My understanding is that what you envision is one of the options on the table. The questions is if you have the negotiating capitol to eliminate DCI. What will you offer management in exchange? (What are you willing to give up to make it happen?)

 

You better be careful...if you access the A320 manual you run the risk of being assimilated. Then you will be welcomed to the Borg collective.

 

Yeah, I was there but left before my chance to interview and flow-up.

I think it's a little different situation in that back then we were just CAL & COEX. That's it, and we were a wholly owned. This situation,as I understand it, we're talking about now would include a whole mess of guys.

But regardless of that, to answer your question: if I got DOH for passes, I would say "thank you very much." If not, fine. It would have been worth it for me to go over with or without it.

 

Look at my above post. I think we can offer cost savings at least on the 70+ seat flying.

 

You'd have to offer more than cost savings. You'd have to match or beat costs or what you envision is DOA with the DAL bean counters. Are you willing to fly an RJ under ASA's contract (highest in DCI)? Or how about PCL's soon to be "industry average" contract? That's what it will take. Will you put your money where your mouth is?

Anything else would cause DAL's net costs to go up. They won't agree to that.