Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-10-2010, 05:08 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by DAL4EVER
Essential,
While I agree we have a long way to go to recapturing our lost retirement and payscales we did improvements with the LOAs. We will be the highest paid of the legacies, we don't have guys on furlough and each year we are adding to our 401ks. It doesn't mean we should be satisfied but we have and are making improvements that will hopefully be used as a solid baseline to build off in 2012.
I would rather be negotiating from a position of strength (hopefully the economy has improved by then and our synergies have fully been realized) than go for broke and achieve nothing. Look at UAL, CAL and AMR for how well that has worked for them.
While I agree we have a long way to go to recapturing our lost retirement and payscales we did improvements with the LOAs. We will be the highest paid of the legacies, we don't have guys on furlough and each year we are adding to our 401ks. It doesn't mean we should be satisfied but we have and are making improvements that will hopefully be used as a solid baseline to build off in 2012.
I would rather be negotiating from a position of strength (hopefully the economy has improved by then and our synergies have fully been realized) than go for broke and achieve nothing. Look at UAL, CAL and AMR for how well that has worked for them.
I understand the glass half full mentality. I also understand that as a non DL pilot I may be missing some vital clue
If I were DL management reading that post I would be giggling, ordering a round of drinks and 'choking the chicken', all at the same time.
Carry on and good luck
01-10-2010, 05:20 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by RCD73
I understand the glass half full mentality. I also understand that as a non DL pilot I may be missing some vital clue
If I were DL management reading that post I would be giggling, ordering a round of drinks and 'choking the chicken', all at the same time.
Carry on and good luck
If I were DL management reading that post I would be giggling, ordering a round of drinks and 'choking the chicken', all at the same time.
Carry on and good luck
We all want tons of flying and want to do it all, but many understand the intrinsic value of a revenue stream across many brands.
I for one have done a ton of research on the AF-DAL JV and the simple fact is that the business is gaining a ton of premium revenue in the form of First Class Full paying customers that start on a AF flight and connect to ours.
I agree with many that we do not need to bend over to give the business everything it needs, but at the same time need to let the groundwork to a sustainable business plan form here. This is happening here at DAL. There are a few danger points, but overall the business is set to thrive. When that happens we will have a better opportunity to demand and receive the compensation and PWA that we are wanting. In the end it is all full circle.
This is not Kool-Aid drinking but the facts. Sometimes it is just hard to swallow it.
(On a side note this does not mean that we need to lay down and give them everything they can think of. It means that deals like JAL will be good for us, so just do not take these words as a blanked statement)
01-10-2010, 05:27 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Part of what they hire. PPL that overall understand business. It is not that management duped him. He along with many see the value of a strong business plan so that we can once again be compensated in line with our worth, and to do it for a business that can sustain a profitable business while doing so.
We all want tons of flying and want to do it all, but many understand the intrinsic value of a revenue stream across many brands.
We all want tons of flying and want to do it all, but many understand the intrinsic value of a revenue stream across many brands.
Ahhh ... I see now. Thanks.
You're absolutely correct
Atta boy.
01-10-2010, 07:27 PM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I agree with many that we do not need to bend over to give the business everything it needs, but at the same time need to let the groundwork to a sustainable business plan form here. This is happening here at DAL.
Every paycheck we cash is a new reaming.
Our pay and benefits have been obliterated since the 2000 contract.
We are becoming kinda like "Stockholm hostages". We've been savaged and abused for so long that we've become accustomed to it and now we voluntarily bend over whenever management walks into the room and actually thank them for allowing us a dab of Vaseline. Inexplicably, we wish for their success even as they abuse us.
The real danger that worries me is that too many Delta pilots have learned to accept our current lower standard of living as the "new normal" for major airline pilots. I fear we're going to forget that this is a bankruptcy contract and its going to take some HUGE restoration just to get back to where we were.
We must not allow that to occur. We have to remember.
That's the real reason I react so strongly to some forum posters who like to point out how good we have it compared to USAir or whatever and who seem to think the industry has changed forever and have surrendered to the idea that pilots will never again be paid as true "professionals" on par with top doctors and lawyers, etc.
Sometimes the tone of this thread scares me. We've begun to measure the success of our careers based on the accomplishments of the corporation. We facilitate and cheer for the successful DAL/NWA merger. We sign and applaud the AF Joint Venture. We give our full support to the Japanese thing. We lobby our Senators and Congressmen on behalf of management's LaGuardia slot swap. And on and on. But meanwhile, we are still working for bankruptcy wages.
We've been "laying the groundwork for a sustainable business plan" for about 7 or 8 years now.
Its time to ask for something in return.
Last edited by Check Essential; 01-10-2010 at 07:47 PM.
01-10-2010, 07:36 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Starboard Side, weekends & holidays.
Posts: 855
Originally Posted by Check Essential
The real danger that worries me is that too many Delta pilots have learned to accept our current lower standard of living as the "new normal" for major airline pilots. I fear we're going to forget that this is a bankruptcy contract and its going to take some HUGE restoration just to get back to where we were.
We must not allow that to occur. We have to remember.
That's the real reason I react so strongly to some forum posters who like to point out how good we have it compared to USAir or whatever and who seem to think the industry has changed forever and have surrendered to the idea that pilots will never again be paid as true "professionals" on par with top doctors and lawyers, etc.
Sometimes the tone of this thread scares me. We've begun to measure the success of our careers based on the accomplishments of the corporation. We facilitate and cheer for the successful DAL/NWA merger. We sign and applaud the AF Joint Venture. We give our full support to the Japanese thing. But meanwhile, we are still working for bankruptcy wages.
We've been "laying the groundwork for a sustainable business plan" for about 7 or 8 years now.
Its time to ask for something in return.
We must not allow that to occur. We have to remember.
That's the real reason I react so strongly to some forum posters who like to point out how good we have it compared to USAir or whatever and who seem to think the industry has changed forever and have surrendered to the idea that pilots will never again be paid as true "professionals" on par with top doctors and lawyers, etc.
Sometimes the tone of this thread scares me. We've begun to measure the success of our careers based on the accomplishments of the corporation. We facilitate and cheer for the successful DAL/NWA merger. We sign and applaud the AF Joint Venture. We give our full support to the Japanese thing. But meanwhile, we are still working for bankruptcy wages.
We've been "laying the groundwork for a sustainable business plan" for about 7 or 8 years now.
Its time to ask for something in return.
In all seriousness, I couldn't agree more. Excellent post.
01-10-2010, 07:49 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 799
Originally Posted by Check Essential
We have been bent over for the last 7 years. We are still bent over.
Every paycheck we cash is a new reaming.
Our pay and benefits have been obliterated since the 2000 contract.
We are becoming kinda like "Stockholm hostages". We've been savaged and abused for so long that we've become accustomed to it and now we voluntarily bend over whenever management walks into the room and actually thank them for allowing us a dab of Vaseline. We wish for their success even as they abuse us.
The real danger that worries me is that too many Delta pilots have learned to accept our current lower standard of living as the "new normal" for major airline pilots. I fear we're going to forget that this is a bankruptcy contract and its going to take some HUGE restoration just to get back to where we were.
We must not allow that to occur. We have to remember.
That's the real reason I react so strongly to some forum posters who like to point out how good we have it compared to USAir or whatever and who seem to think the industry has changed forever and have surrendered to the idea that pilots will never again be paid as true "professionals" on par with top doctors and lawyers, etc.
Sometimes the tone of this thread scares me. We've begun to measure the success of our careers based on the accomplishments of the corporation. We facilitate and cheer for the successful DAL/NWA merger. We sign and applaud the AF Joint Venture. We give our full support to the Japanese thing. We lobby our Senators and Congressmen on behalf of management's LaGuardia slot swap. And on and on. But meanwhile, we are still working for bankruptcy wages.
We've been "laying the groundwork for a sustainable business plan" for about 7 or 8 years now.
Its time to ask for something in return.
Every paycheck we cash is a new reaming.
Our pay and benefits have been obliterated since the 2000 contract.
We are becoming kinda like "Stockholm hostages". We've been savaged and abused for so long that we've become accustomed to it and now we voluntarily bend over whenever management walks into the room and actually thank them for allowing us a dab of Vaseline. We wish for their success even as they abuse us.
The real danger that worries me is that too many Delta pilots have learned to accept our current lower standard of living as the "new normal" for major airline pilots. I fear we're going to forget that this is a bankruptcy contract and its going to take some HUGE restoration just to get back to where we were.
We must not allow that to occur. We have to remember.
That's the real reason I react so strongly to some forum posters who like to point out how good we have it compared to USAir or whatever and who seem to think the industry has changed forever and have surrendered to the idea that pilots will never again be paid as true "professionals" on par with top doctors and lawyers, etc.
Sometimes the tone of this thread scares me. We've begun to measure the success of our careers based on the accomplishments of the corporation. We facilitate and cheer for the successful DAL/NWA merger. We sign and applaud the AF Joint Venture. We give our full support to the Japanese thing. We lobby our Senators and Congressmen on behalf of management's LaGuardia slot swap. And on and on. But meanwhile, we are still working for bankruptcy wages.
We've been "laying the groundwork for a sustainable business plan" for about 7 or 8 years now.
Its time to ask for something in return.
01-10-2010, 07:59 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Dear Dr. Clamp,
Does Charlie Daniels play a mean fiddle?
FTB
Does Charlie Daniels play a mean fiddle?
FTB
01-10-2010, 08:07 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: LAX 350 A
Posts: 564
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Oh boy, you guys sure know how to take a reference and run with it.
That would be a great idea, but very expensive. I was referring to a non-replacement aircraft.
That would be a great idea, but very expensive. I was referring to a non-replacement aircraft.
01-10-2010, 08:12 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
Originally Posted by Check Essential
We have been bent over for the last 7 years. We are still bent over.
Every paycheck we cash is a new reaming.
Our pay and benefits have been obliterated since the 2000 contract.
We are becoming kinda like "Stockholm hostages". We've been savaged and abused for so long that we've become accustomed to it and now we voluntarily bend over whenever management walks into the room and actually thank them for allowing us a dab of Vaseline. Inexplicably, we wish for their success even as they abuse us.
The real danger that worries me is that too many Delta pilots have learned to accept our current lower standard of living as the "new normal" for major airline pilots. I fear we're going to forget that this is a bankruptcy contract and its going to take some HUGE restoration just to get back to where we were.
We must not allow that to occur. We have to remember.
That's the real reason I react so strongly to some forum posters who like to point out how good we have it compared to USAir or whatever and who seem to think the industry has changed forever and have surrendered to the idea that pilots will never again be paid as true "professionals" on par with top doctors and lawyers, etc.
Sometimes the tone of this thread scares me. We've begun to measure the success of our careers based on the accomplishments of the corporation. We facilitate and cheer for the successful DAL/NWA merger. We sign and applaud the AF Joint Venture. We give our full support to the Japanese thing. We lobby our Senators and Congressmen on behalf of management's LaGuardia slot swap. And on and on. But meanwhile, we are still working for bankruptcy wages.
We've been "laying the groundwork for a sustainable business plan" for about 7 or 8 years now.
Its time to ask for something in return.
Every paycheck we cash is a new reaming.
Our pay and benefits have been obliterated since the 2000 contract.
We are becoming kinda like "Stockholm hostages". We've been savaged and abused for so long that we've become accustomed to it and now we voluntarily bend over whenever management walks into the room and actually thank them for allowing us a dab of Vaseline. Inexplicably, we wish for their success even as they abuse us.
The real danger that worries me is that too many Delta pilots have learned to accept our current lower standard of living as the "new normal" for major airline pilots. I fear we're going to forget that this is a bankruptcy contract and its going to take some HUGE restoration just to get back to where we were.
We must not allow that to occur. We have to remember.
That's the real reason I react so strongly to some forum posters who like to point out how good we have it compared to USAir or whatever and who seem to think the industry has changed forever and have surrendered to the idea that pilots will never again be paid as true "professionals" on par with top doctors and lawyers, etc.
Sometimes the tone of this thread scares me. We've begun to measure the success of our careers based on the accomplishments of the corporation. We facilitate and cheer for the successful DAL/NWA merger. We sign and applaud the AF Joint Venture. We give our full support to the Japanese thing. We lobby our Senators and Congressmen on behalf of management's LaGuardia slot swap. And on and on. But meanwhile, we are still working for bankruptcy wages.
We've been "laying the groundwork for a sustainable business plan" for about 7 or 8 years now.
Its time to ask for something in return.
01-10-2010, 08:14 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: LAX 350 A
Posts: 564
Originally Posted by Check Essential
We have been bent over for the last 7 years. We are still bent over.
Every paycheck we cash is a new reaming.
Our pay and benefits have been obliterated since the 2000 contract.
We are becoming kinda like "Stockholm hostages". We've been savaged and abused for so long that we've become accustomed to it and now we voluntarily bend over whenever management walks into the room and actually thank them for allowing us a dab of Vaseline. Inexplicably, we wish for their success even as they abuse us.
The real danger that worries me is that too many Delta pilots have learned to accept our current lower standard of living as the "new normal" for major airline pilots. I fear we're going to forget that this is a bankruptcy contract and its going to take some HUGE restoration just to get back to where we were.
We must not allow that to occur. We have to remember.
That's the real reason I react so strongly to some forum posters who like to point out how good we have it compared to USAir or whatever and who seem to think the industry has changed forever and have surrendered to the idea that pilots will never again be paid as true "professionals" on par with top doctors and lawyers, etc.
Sometimes the tone of this thread scares me. We've begun to measure the success of our careers based on the accomplishments of the corporation. We facilitate and cheer for the successful DAL/NWA merger. We sign and applaud the AF Joint Venture. We give our full support to the Japanese thing. We lobby our Senators and Congressmen on behalf of management's LaGuardia slot swap. And on and on. But meanwhile, we are still working for bankruptcy wages.
We've been "laying the groundwork for a sustainable business plan" for about 7 or 8 years now.
Its time to ask for something in return.
Every paycheck we cash is a new reaming.
Our pay and benefits have been obliterated since the 2000 contract.
We are becoming kinda like "Stockholm hostages". We've been savaged and abused for so long that we've become accustomed to it and now we voluntarily bend over whenever management walks into the room and actually thank them for allowing us a dab of Vaseline. Inexplicably, we wish for their success even as they abuse us.
The real danger that worries me is that too many Delta pilots have learned to accept our current lower standard of living as the "new normal" for major airline pilots. I fear we're going to forget that this is a bankruptcy contract and its going to take some HUGE restoration just to get back to where we were.
We must not allow that to occur. We have to remember.
That's the real reason I react so strongly to some forum posters who like to point out how good we have it compared to USAir or whatever and who seem to think the industry has changed forever and have surrendered to the idea that pilots will never again be paid as true "professionals" on par with top doctors and lawyers, etc.
Sometimes the tone of this thread scares me. We've begun to measure the success of our careers based on the accomplishments of the corporation. We facilitate and cheer for the successful DAL/NWA merger. We sign and applaud the AF Joint Venture. We give our full support to the Japanese thing. We lobby our Senators and Congressmen on behalf of management's LaGuardia slot swap. And on and on. But meanwhile, we are still working for bankruptcy wages.
We've been "laying the groundwork for a sustainable business plan" for about 7 or 8 years now.
Its time to ask for something in return.
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