Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-23-2010 | 05:16 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: LAX 350 A
The problem is slim margins in this business. If the pilots showed up to work for free, the airline would only see a small improvement in the bottom line. However, since there is such a small margin, pay cuts make the difference between a profit and a loss. This is why labor continues to take a beating in this industry.
In my opinion, the fundamental problem in this industry is the way airlines have changed their revenue generating policies. For some reason the airlines think that filling every seat on the plane at any cost is better than having it go out empty. THIS IS WRONG, and ever since this way of thinking was implemented, the airlines have lost money. Imagine if Intel, instead of discarding the processors that don't perform up to spec, decided to sell them at a discount price. Instead of paying $350 for a chip that runs at 2.5 GHz you can buy one out of spec for $100 that runs at 2.0GHz. How long do you think it would be till Intel is bankrupt? The cost of the empty seats should be factored into the cost of the filled seats, this was how revenue was generated during regulation. When you create a secondary market for the same product it causes severe downward pressure on the cost of the original product. Management has no choice but to turn to labor for the savings, where in reality they only have to raise the prices of the seats 1% to turn a profit again.
In my opinion, the fundamental problem in this industry is the way airlines have changed their revenue generating policies. For some reason the airlines think that filling every seat on the plane at any cost is better than having it go out empty. THIS IS WRONG, and ever since this way of thinking was implemented, the airlines have lost money. Imagine if Intel, instead of discarding the processors that don't perform up to spec, decided to sell them at a discount price. Instead of paying $350 for a chip that runs at 2.5 GHz you can buy one out of spec for $100 that runs at 2.0GHz. How long do you think it would be till Intel is bankrupt? The cost of the empty seats should be factored into the cost of the filled seats, this was how revenue was generated during regulation. When you create a secondary market for the same product it causes severe downward pressure on the cost of the original product. Management has no choice but to turn to labor for the savings, where in reality they only have to raise the prices of the seats 1% to turn a profit again.
You got it Toyota!
Until the airline industry wises up and quits offering that extra $1 cheaper fare in Expedia so that we may move up a couple of places in the pax's search, we have no hope. I'm not going to get into the "providing better product" or "pax loyalty" or " whatever." Until we do what most other successful companies have done in this country and charge more for our product than it takes to make, we are doomed.
Look at the pharmaceutical companies, they charge $2.26 for each Viagra(tm) and get it easy when they make them for probably like $.05. Don't ask why I know how much they cost you bastards!
This is just one f...ed up business.
BD
01-23-2010 | 05:20 PM
Happy to be here
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From: A-320A
BD you are correct.
Problem is that no airlines is willing to reeducate the consumers as the possible loss of revenue is just too great.
Best thing we could do it get off of those sites just like SWA. To be successful take risk.
Problem is that no airlines is willing to reeducate the consumers as the possible loss of revenue is just too great.
Best thing we could do it get off of those sites just like SWA. To be successful take risk.
01-23-2010 | 05:38 PM
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From: B757/767
Now just recently we signed a contract that had a formula to determine the number of large RJs. But to our shock management had a different 'interpretation' of the formula & therefore conviently added a higher number of large RJs to the fleet.
Clearly it's just worthless and ineffective unless it's in the contract, right?
01-23-2010 | 05:38 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
Anybody have the hard numbers on this but it is my understanding SWA is not the cheapest airline to fly on. But people think they are because they have cheap tickets but since you can't compare them on Orbitz side by side with other airlines you just assume that SWA is best.
For instance:
ATL-LAS (Depart Sunday 24th, return Friday 29th)
SWA: 1 roundtrip from BHM. 1 leg refundable and the return nonrefundable for a cost of $588. Both refundable is $899.40, and they're about to sell out of the return as refundable.
DAL: 7 flights from ATL, 4 for $565 RT and 3 for $853. Both legs refundable is $1123 RT.
SWA wins on being refundable but DAL did have more flights for cheaper at the last second booking (tomorrow).
Go on Orbitz and you find out that low and behold, AirTran costs the same a Delta but if you want refundable tickets then AirTran is $100 less total. Thanks Orbitz!
But then the question is, how much money comes in from Orbitz? When I used to buy airline tickets I'd go to Orbitz to price shop then buy the tickets direct from the carrier. If prices were the same then I bought tickets for myself and my coworker on a Delta, then AirTran then ASA. I just didn't want to get screwed so I price shopped and I bet you thats what a lot of smart, handsome and cool people like myself do.
For instance:
ATL-LAS (Depart Sunday 24th, return Friday 29th)
SWA: 1 roundtrip from BHM. 1 leg refundable and the return nonrefundable for a cost of $588. Both refundable is $899.40, and they're about to sell out of the return as refundable.
DAL: 7 flights from ATL, 4 for $565 RT and 3 for $853. Both legs refundable is $1123 RT.
SWA wins on being refundable but DAL did have more flights for cheaper at the last second booking (tomorrow).
Go on Orbitz and you find out that low and behold, AirTran costs the same a Delta but if you want refundable tickets then AirTran is $100 less total. Thanks Orbitz!
But then the question is, how much money comes in from Orbitz? When I used to buy airline tickets I'd go to Orbitz to price shop then buy the tickets direct from the carrier. If prices were the same then I bought tickets for myself and my coworker on a Delta, then AirTran then ASA. I just didn't want to get screwed so I price shopped and I bet you thats what a lot of smart, handsome and cool people like myself do.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 01-23-2010 at 06:02 PM.
01-23-2010 | 05:48 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
I agree we need to charge more, but how much? You really can only do a few dollars at a time and then wait to see if all the others UAL, UsAir, Alegiant, Alaska, American, Air Tran, Continental, Jetblue, Frontier, Midwest Express, Spirit, Southwest match.
Something tells me that last one won't and they'll jump all over anyone else who does and eventually we'll have to capitulate. But for some damn reason SWA gets to escape blame from within the pilot ranks for destroying the industry because their pilots, as of right now, are paid well. We blame the regional pilots for taking jobs with whipsawed regionals that the mainline pilots allowed to fly replacement jets but not SWA pilots who work for an airline who pokes our employer in the eye, cuts corners, offers nothing and gets away with it because they pay $40 more per hour for 737 CA then we do as of right now.
I think we need to ramp up flying out of BHM, BWI, STL and other places and do it with direct flights and go toe to toe with SWA.
Southwest Airlines forces airfares to drop
Updated: 01/22/2010 8:09 PM KSTP.com
By: Katie Lynn Crandall
Southwest Airlines has only been at MSP for about 10 months, but has already changed the market.
Airfares have been dropping since Southwest moved to the Twin Cities.
"It's not as dramatic as we expected," said travel expert Terry Trippler, "but Southwest didn't come here hitting four or five cities right away."
Southwest currently flies to three cities from MSP. The cost for one way flights to Denver dropped almost 20 percent. The fare one way to Chicago went down 29 percent, while airfare to St. Louis decreased 63 percent.
Passenger Dave Crosby from Indianapolis said he flies Southwest because, "Price is right and service is fantastic."
Chicago passenger, Jolene Coggan, agreed, "Their flights seem to be the cheapest flights."
The airline carried about half a million passengers last year. The Metropolitan Airports Commission reported Southwest now ranks as the number two carrier behind Delta-Northwest.
Something tells me that last one won't and they'll jump all over anyone else who does and eventually we'll have to capitulate. But for some damn reason SWA gets to escape blame from within the pilot ranks for destroying the industry because their pilots, as of right now, are paid well. We blame the regional pilots for taking jobs with whipsawed regionals that the mainline pilots allowed to fly replacement jets but not SWA pilots who work for an airline who pokes our employer in the eye, cuts corners, offers nothing and gets away with it because they pay $40 more per hour for 737 CA then we do as of right now.
I think we need to ramp up flying out of BHM, BWI, STL and other places and do it with direct flights and go toe to toe with SWA.
Southwest Airlines forces airfares to drop
Updated: 01/22/2010 8:09 PM KSTP.com
By: Katie Lynn Crandall
Southwest Airlines has only been at MSP for about 10 months, but has already changed the market.
Airfares have been dropping since Southwest moved to the Twin Cities.
"It's not as dramatic as we expected," said travel expert Terry Trippler, "but Southwest didn't come here hitting four or five cities right away."
Southwest currently flies to three cities from MSP. The cost for one way flights to Denver dropped almost 20 percent. The fare one way to Chicago went down 29 percent, while airfare to St. Louis decreased 63 percent.
Passenger Dave Crosby from Indianapolis said he flies Southwest because, "Price is right and service is fantastic."
Chicago passenger, Jolene Coggan, agreed, "Their flights seem to be the cheapest flights."
The airline carried about half a million passengers last year. The Metropolitan Airports Commission reported Southwest now ranks as the number two carrier behind Delta-Northwest.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 01-23-2010 at 06:03 PM.
01-23-2010 | 05:55 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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Personally, I'd like to see a similar policy or contractual option at the New Delta. But "grow a set", gmafb.
01-23-2010 | 06:04 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Wilbur and Orville failed to patent powered flight although they tried. Delta's only innovation was dumping lead arsenide from an airplane to eradicate the Bol Weavil. Apparently even then, we sold our tickets cheap.
YouTube - Don Bowman "Boll Weevil Air Lines" from "Very Funny Stuff"
Patsy Possum Lips ... "thanks for flying ... good luck"
01-23-2010 | 06:06 PM
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From: A-320A
I agree Slow that the NWA "policy" should become a contractual item in our new PWA or arrive as a mid-term improvement. I agree that it "could" be rescinded if it is a policy and not a contractual provision.
Question though. These jumpseat booking windows and psy for a bump from a class one or two jumpseater are still policy and not contractual, correct? Also did they make the change of making the js not part of payload optimization part of the contract or is that a policy?
If so we should make them contractual or they could be changed as well.. If I am wrong, then point me where the changes are in the contract.
I know, it is the call in honest program that is contractual but how about the details?
Question though. These jumpseat booking windows and psy for a bump from a class one or two jumpseater are still policy and not contractual, correct? Also did they make the change of making the js not part of payload optimization part of the contract or is that a policy?
If so we should make them contractual or they could be changed as well.. If I am wrong, then point me where the changes are in the contract.
I know, it is the call in honest program that is contractual but how about the details?
01-23-2010 | 06:12 PM
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From: A-320A
FtB;
SWA prices by segment. If there is a through flight it will price the whole leg (DAL-MSY-MCO) If it does not have the same segment (AMA-HOU-MCO) you will need to buy the flights separately to get to the destination. That is where you see a 89 dollar flight then a 49 dollar flight but when you add them up it get to be more expensive than DAL does. We book and price for origin to destination whereas LUV does not always do that. Add to it, they do not offer interline ticketing and do not sell on the On-line ticket brokerages. It makes it more time consuming to compare their prices.
SWA prices by segment. If there is a through flight it will price the whole leg (DAL-MSY-MCO) If it does not have the same segment (AMA-HOU-MCO) you will need to buy the flights separately to get to the destination. That is where you see a 89 dollar flight then a 49 dollar flight but when you add them up it get to be more expensive than DAL does. We book and price for origin to destination whereas LUV does not always do that. Add to it, they do not offer interline ticketing and do not sell on the On-line ticket brokerages. It makes it more time consuming to compare their prices.
01-23-2010 | 06:14 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,105
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