Originally Posted by satchip (Post 794020)

I advocated this when we were going through the JPWA stuff. Raising first year pay by 1 dollar is worth more in the long run than raising 12 year A pay by 10 dollars. (Ok, so I pulled that number out of my tushy, but you get the point.)

I was thinking a bigger pay bump for the bottom coupled with a bigger DC bump for the top. Would that satisfy the Deadzone guys? I understand their dilemma, but neither end of the list should screw the other for personal gains.

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 794023)

So I should lose out because you did? (JOKE! That would be the "FU I want mine" response.)

Reality from the world according to Shiznit:

Expect that I will stand beside senior pilots to try and help make up for losses, and I expect you will stand beside junior pilots to make sure that can never happen to us as a group again. Expect that we would always stand side by side to improve day-to-day QOL for all pilots no matter what, where, who, or when!

Originally Posted by nwaf16dude (Post 793981)

Finally, a south guy that agrees with me on this point. I've said on here more than once that we set a bad precedent by paying the same payrate on those two. I don't think there's any way that it will get fixed until after the fences come down. By then it may be a moot point anyway.

Totally unrelated... I just finished my first trip since Feb 2003 (OE on ER). I had a great time and was very well treated by all the folks down in ATL. Good to be back.

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 794015)

For my 2012 "wants", if it came down to a few things that would have the biggest impact:

1. Pay and credit for ALL activities (e.g. training, deadhead only, vacation, reserve days.)

2. Duty periods calculated on a day by day, not look back/averages.

3. DPM of 5:30 in 2012, 5:40 in 2013, 5:50 in 2014, 6:00 in 2015 (6:00 is FDX current book)

4. Payrates to equal FDX widebody for ALL FLEET TYPES equally.(see next for "adjustments").

5. Return of night override of $10 CA, $7 FO for all time 2200-0600 Local Base Time, LBT resets with layovers greater than 72 hrs.

6. Increase of intl. override of $10 CA, $7 FO.

7. DC of 18%.

8. Profit sharing/bonuses calculated using the same methodology as top 10 company officers (amounts would obviously be lower, but it would equalize the "payouts in a corporate loss" animosity).

Yes, ALPA guys, it is a WISH LIST, I understand we need leverage to make gains.....

Pay and credit for ALL activities would increase pay, QOL and opportunities for EVERYBODY in huge ways (ask Sailing for details on this). Night and intl. overrides would make up for changes in "pay by type" equalization. I have some interesting "outside the box" ideas stemming from the pay and credit thing but can't truly and fully explain them in webboard form.

Enjoy!

Originally Posted by Waves (Post 794034)

Funny, I got two distinct different hits on this subject from the northern hemisphere.

I understand shiznit's "junior" point, but HEAVY METAL should just pay more, period. This is coming from someone who will never see it, so it cannot be misconstrued as a senior pulling up the ladder. I may be old but I'm not really senior. I just call em like I sees em. I didn't agree with a lot of what the NWA's attorneys did, but I didn't agree with the DAL attorneys that the 747 was equal in pay to the 777, because it isn't.

Originally Posted by nwaf16dude (Post 793981)

Finally, a south guy that agrees with me on this point. I've said on here more than once that we set a bad precedent by paying the same payrate on those two. I don't think there's any way that it will get fixed until after the fences come down. By then it may be a moot point anyway.

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 793951)

As far as finishing up CAPT on a 747 - why yes you might have finished up as a 747 Captain at a stand alone Northwest, or the stand alone NW and Delta both could have been back in BK and maybe UAL/AMR/CAL etc would be cleaning our clocks if they merged and we didn't. Or maybe Doug Parker would have taken a fancy to NW and you would currently be doing a three-way in merger Hell with USAIR and AWA. Comparing the current situation to what "might have been" or even what you think "would have been" is an iffy proposition at best.

The biggest recurring mistake I see Pilots on this forum make is extrapolating out 10, 20, or 30 years into the future - it does not work. Hell, maybe this merger will not work and were all screwed - who knows.

Finally, I will end with a quote from a very wise man: "Predictions are hard to make - especially about the future." Yogi Berra

So I will continue to plan for the worst but hope for the best regarding this merger.
Scoop

Originally Posted by enuff (Post 793977)

Here's a little advice. Look at everything that has happened over the past ten years. Now can you really sit here and tell me "that in the next twenty years i'll be (fill in the blank). No way. So much will happen and it will make your head spin when it does. So don't sweat what's five, ten or twenty years out. Look at today and the fact that if we (Delta) don't make it..... nobody will. The only way you'll know how it worked out is the day you hang up the spurs and take a long trip back down memory lane.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 794044)

Yeah, I'd chalk that one up to politics. :D

Originally Posted by shiznit (Post 794038)

Boo hiss!!! Can I call you names and make denigrating comments on your "airline ancestry/heritage" since I don't agree with you!?!?!

I don't have to agree, but I respect your opinion.
(oh, and since you are senior to me I better be nice so you'll buy the beers when I'm your FO!!:eek:)