OK - those check with roughly what I was calculating. So $142k (in today's dollars) is deemed insufficient to retire on? Fair enough. But that's a long way from eating cat food, as so many of our peers proclaim....

And, BTW, as a reminder, your original assumptions assumed both you and DAL put in ZERO dollars between now and age 60-65. Put in DAL's 12-14%, and those numbers will go up substantially. Sounds like you're gonna do just fine in retirement, even without the PBGC and without SS and without any payraise....

That's what the 73N systems review will do to you. I feel your pain.

Yeah, I've noticed the same thing with a lot of guys acting as if they would have to eat cat food in retirement. I've been saying for a long time that our current setup is actually better than what we had with the pension. Of course, that becomes less true for those older than I am who lost their pension even later in their careers than I did. And my assumptions are, of course, just assumptions. I feel pretty comfortable that I'm going to continue getting a 12% annual yield, but there are no guarantees. If I were to get substantially less than that, then the final result would be substantially lower.

And, of course, you are correct that the company contributions will positively affect the outcome. I just left that out to keep the math simpler. (Which, as everyone has seen today, is essential for me! ) My main purpose was to illustrate the significant difference an additional 5 years can make to the bottom line retirement income. In the example I used, it's over a $1 million difference to the total value of the portfolio.

Now, as far as the overall value of the career... that's another story when you look at how much less we are all earning than we should be. By the time we get a new contract with substantial restoration of our pay rates, it might be almost a decade since we took the massive cuts. Talk about a "lost decade"! That's pretty hard to overcome when you're looking at the overall value of your career.

Amen, nice jet with lots of neat gee whiz stuff....

Now to avoid a displacement and if not where to go. 88 or 73n in nyc......

Using this logic, the company could call you at hour 19 of your short call day and send you out on 2 hours notice. After all, you were not used the prior 12 hours so you were not "on duty", at least according to your interpretation.

Sorry, but Whitlow was instituted to avoid the very look-back scenario you are espousing as legal. That's not to say Delta hasn't been getting away with this for years, but at NWA we didn't let them.

Gotta side with Super on this one.

How the heck are you getting 12% per year in today's dreadful times?

If you are called to an international trip, they can do precisely that. Whitlow only applies to domestic operations. US ER guys on reserve can't be called to domestic trips without the 12 hour look back. International trips, though, are another matter.

Yes, satch, I have seen it. 24 SC and you get a call in the last two hrs for a 12 hr international trip that leaves in a few hrs. It is 100% legal contractually and FAR wise.

It also happens in the domestic 12 hr SC callout world too. When a aircraft will be dispatched using Flag rules, Whitlow does not apply. MAO is a great example. You are in the last few hrs of SC and they call you for a trip that reports outside of your SC window to fly all night on a two man care. Yep, it is legal too. Whitlow does not apply.

Watch for it, you will see it happening regularly this summer.

Not familiar with the international rules in the PWA. I can agree that EXTENDING your crew day to conform to the international rules is perfectly legal. I think where we part company is in IGNORING the time you were already on call. At NWA, if we got called out on an international trip 10 hours into our reserve day, we were already 10 hours into our contractual/FAR duty limit.

My ignorance may be showing, but in reading this board it looks like DAL does disregard the time you were already on call. If that is true, I take serious exception to it.

Did you say cat?

Speaking of cats, Delta Flight Attendants singing in concert, start at 1 min