Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-16-2010, 07:44 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,143
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
... and it really does no good if a lot of pilots are forced into mandatory displacements.
05-16-2010, 07:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Nice pic Buzz.
Live about a mile and a half from his library. Have given a few speeches at his ranch. Which is an amazing experience and far more austere than most Americans would think. At the library, they have his last AF One jet on a stand. Walk on board, and the ONLY character/mannequin you'll see is the military aide (Air Force, by the way). Wasn't me, far too young, but still cool and he has the "football" chained to his wrist. It took my 7-year old on a school field trip to finally figure out that his dad once did that.
05-16-2010, 07:49 PM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by iaflyer
We're not trying to argue the company's understanding, we're arguing on ALPA's behalf. What you are bascially saying is that you're not going to take that trip, because ALPA and the company aren't going to personally write you a letter saying it's ok - because they already have, that's what the information from the union (the Scheduling Alert) is.
This quote is straight from the Scheduling Alert, 10-01 which was sent out in early April:
The requirement to be relieved of all duty for 24 hours in any seven consecutive days applies to all pilots except an international four-man crew. The seven consecutive days are considered to be calendar days, while the 24 hours may be any 24 consecutive hours, i.e., not necessarily a calendar day, and may occur on a layover.
Important note: This is a flight limitation. A pilot may fly for six days and train or deadhead on the seventh day. A reserve pilot may be on call for any number of consecutive days, but must have been released from telephone responsibilities for at least 24 consecutive hours at some point in the past seven days prior to reporting for domestic flight duty. This is not true for international flight duty.
Important note: There is no requirement to place a day of rest on the seventh consecutive on-call day if no 24 hour rest in the past seven days can be found. As long as a pilot has 24 hours rest in seven days prior to reporting for domestic flight duty he is legal. When needed, such rest is placed on the pilot’s line at the time that a domestic trip is assigned. This has the effect of providing him at least 24 hours notice to a domestic reserve flying assignment if he cannot look back and find 24 hours rest in the preceding seven days.
What part of that isn't clear? I know that it isn't the way the NWA did it, but this is my fifth airline, and each airline has their own interpretation of the FARs. (not this specific FAR, I'm talking in general).
This quote is straight from the Scheduling Alert, 10-01 which was sent out in early April:
The requirement to be relieved of all duty for 24 hours in any seven consecutive days applies to all pilots except an international four-man crew. The seven consecutive days are considered to be calendar days, while the 24 hours may be any 24 consecutive hours, i.e., not necessarily a calendar day, and may occur on a layover.
Important note: This is a flight limitation. A pilot may fly for six days and train or deadhead on the seventh day. A reserve pilot may be on call for any number of consecutive days, but must have been released from telephone responsibilities for at least 24 consecutive hours at some point in the past seven days prior to reporting for domestic flight duty. This is not true for international flight duty.
Important note: There is no requirement to place a day of rest on the seventh consecutive on-call day if no 24 hour rest in the past seven days can be found. As long as a pilot has 24 hours rest in seven days prior to reporting for domestic flight duty he is legal. When needed, such rest is placed on the pilot’s line at the time that a domestic trip is assigned. This has the effect of providing him at least 24 hours notice to a domestic reserve flying assignment if he cannot look back and find 24 hours rest in the preceding seven days.
What part of that isn't clear? I know that it isn't the way the NWA did it, but this is my fifth airline, and each airline has their own interpretation of the FARs. (not this specific FAR, I'm talking in general).
Thats exactly how NWA did it and is what the FARs state. You just posted exactly what i'm trying to tell you. Its above in red and I agree its pretty clear
A domestic pilot must be released from duty for 24 hours if scheduled to be on call or work for more than 7 days.
05-16-2010, 07:50 PM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Nosmo, I'm curious. Why would the next AE have anything to do with increasing retirements?
05-16-2010, 07:52 PM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Another interesting side note
RAn into a DAL-S 7ER instructor on the bus in MSP. I don't know if he was DGS or not.
He said they sent him to MSP to instruct because the DAL-N instructors didn't want to instruct unless their hotels were paid for by the company, so they sent a DAL-S instructor from ATL to MSP and paid for his hotel...
RAn into a DAL-S 7ER instructor on the bus in MSP. I don't know if he was DGS or not.
He said they sent him to MSP to instruct because the DAL-N instructors didn't want to instruct unless their hotels were paid for by the company, so they sent a DAL-S instructor from ATL to MSP and paid for his hotel...
05-16-2010, 07:58 PM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
Thats exactly how NWA did it and is what the FARs state. You just posted exactly what i'm trying to tell you. Its above in red and I agree its pretty clear
A domestic pilot must be released from duty for 24 hours if scheduled to be on call or work for more than 7 days.
A domestic pilot must be released from duty for 24 hours if scheduled to be on call or work for more than 7 days.
fNW when you were on call, you were responsible for answering your phone if you were in your RAP(if your category had RAPs) or if you were on a Reserve day for non-RAP equipment.
fNW contract language that was posted was in a subsection titled
D. Determination of Applicable On-Duty Limitations and Rest Provisions
fNW chose to interpret reserve availability as "on-duty" possibly because we had a long history of all reserves being SC prior to Whitlow.
Maybe we can add this to the list of "Things we should have saved from the fNW contract if we had more time and less rhetoric"
That list grows longer everyday
05-16-2010, 07:59 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by Nosmo King
Another interesting side note
RAn into a DAL-S 7ER instructor on the bus in MSP. I don't know if he was DGS or not.
He said they sent him to MSP to instruct because the DAL-N instructors didn't want to instruct unless their hotels were paid for by the company, so they sent a DAL-S instructor from ATL to MSP and paid for his hotel...
RAn into a DAL-S 7ER instructor on the bus in MSP. I don't know if he was DGS or not.
He said they sent him to MSP to instruct because the DAL-N instructors didn't want to instruct unless their hotels were paid for by the company, so they sent a DAL-S instructor from ATL to MSP and paid for his hotel...
05-16-2010, 08:00 PM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,598
Originally Posted by LeineLodge
Your glass is always half empty isn't it
05-16-2010, 08:00 PM
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,706
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
Thats exactly how NWA did it and is what the FARs state. You just posted exactly what i'm trying to tell you. Its above in red and I agree its pretty clear
A domestic pilot must be released from duty for 24 hours if scheduled to be on call or work for more than 7 days.
A domestic pilot must be released from duty for 24 hours if scheduled to be on call or work for more than 7 days.
A reserve pilot may be on call for any number of consecutive days, but must have been released from telephone responsibilities for at least 24 consecutive hours at some point in the past seven days prior to reporting for domestic flight duty.
Prior to reporting for domestic flight duty. It doesn't say for being on call or deadheading or anything else. And you're ignoring the next sentence:
Important note: There is no requirement to place a day of rest on the seventh consecutive on-call day if no 24 hour rest in the past seven days can be found. As long as a pilot has 24 hours rest in seven days prior to reporting for domestic flight duty he is legal. When needed, such rest is placed on the pilot’s line at the time that a domestic trip is assigned. This has the effect of providing him at least 24 hours notice to a domestic reserve flying assignment if he cannot look back and find 24 hours rest in the preceding seven days.
I just want you to understand that if you don't take the trip or stomp your feet and go home because you feel that you're owned a day off, you're on your own. The union isn't going to back you because they don't agree with you. The FAA isn't going to back you either. You may think you are owed the day off, but I hate to say it, but in my opinion, you aren't right.
I spent time at my former airline being on the System Board. We saw grievances all the time where the pilot said, "but that's not fair" or "but that's not now I read it". There isn't any room for emotion or what we want - it's black and white when it comes to the regs and this kind of stuff.
05-16-2010, 08:03 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by LeineLodge
Your glass is always half empty isn't it
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