Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-01-2011, 12:18 PM
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Posts: 12,534
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Uncle Sam,
Thank you for your response.
What I am trying to convey is that scope is the foundation for our ability to negotiate pay, retirement and the rest of the contract. Scope defines whether you, or I, are Delta pilots and what we fly. Scope defines who our union represents.
Our MEC's only leverage is the power of representing Delta pilots. Our power is a direct function of our pilots. If we outsource, that power declines. With less power comes poorer results and the declining trend lines we have only recent seen turn around.
Scope is a leading indicator for our bargaining results in other areas of the contract. To gain in these consensus areas, we need a foundation.
Thank you for your response.
What I am trying to convey is that scope is the foundation for our ability to negotiate pay, retirement and the rest of the contract. Scope defines whether you, or I, are Delta pilots and what we fly. Scope defines who our union represents.
Our MEC's only leverage is the power of representing Delta pilots. Our power is a direct function of our pilots. If we outsource, that power declines. With less power comes poorer results and the declining trend lines we have only recent seen turn around.
Scope is a leading indicator for our bargaining results in other areas of the contract. To gain in these consensus areas, we need a foundation.
If pay is important, scope is key because scope is pay.
If retirement is important, scope is key because scope is retirement.
If work rules are important, scope is key because scope is work rules.
Without the seats on property, it doesn't matter what the seat pay's or how many days off it gets or how much retirement it earns.
Can we sell scope for pay or retirement or whatever? Sure. For a while. But the only reason that is possible to begin with is that there is still scope to sell, because those that came before us either fought to get it, fought to keep it, or managed to keep from selling all of it (yet). The scope pendulum has swung way, way too far the other way. It is the front and center issue now. We are not talking about a few 30 seat props or a handful of new to the market RJ's. Half our block hours and pilot jobs are outsourced already. Half. And not just to foreign JV's, but to the lowest bidders right here in our country.
That has to be fixed and we will have to be the ones to fix it. Some before us have fought the good fight and others before us have dropped the ball and we are where we are. But we can't build the house taller without strengthening the foundation. Scope is the foundation of every single issue in the profession in general and for our pilot group in particular.
Scope is the top issue. No contest.
01-01-2011, 12:24 PM
Can't abide NAI
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Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
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. . . . . . . . . . thanks
01-01-2011, 12:54 PM
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Uncle Sam,
Thank you for your response.
What I am trying to convey is that scope is the foundation for our ability to negotiate pay, retirement and the rest of the contract. Scope defines whether you, or I, are Delta pilots and what we fly. Scope defines who our union represents.
Our MEC's only leverage is the power of representing Delta pilots. Our power is a direct function of our pilots. If we outsource, that power declines. With less power comes poorer results and the declining trend lines we have only recent seen turn around.
Scope is a leading indicator for our bargaining results in other areas of the contract. To gain in these consensus areas, we need a foundation.
Thank you for your response.
What I am trying to convey is that scope is the foundation for our ability to negotiate pay, retirement and the rest of the contract. Scope defines whether you, or I, are Delta pilots and what we fly. Scope defines who our union represents.
Our MEC's only leverage is the power of representing Delta pilots. Our power is a direct function of our pilots. If we outsource, that power declines. With less power comes poorer results and the declining trend lines we have only recent seen turn around.
Scope is a leading indicator for our bargaining results in other areas of the contract. To gain in these consensus areas, we need a foundation.
01-01-2011, 01:23 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Scope and its protection is the most important issue at both SWAPA and CALALPA, fwiw. Nothing moves there without first addressing it.
01-01-2011, 01:28 PM
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
Uncle Sam,
Thank you for your response.
What I am trying to convey is that scope is the foundation for our ability to negotiate pay, retirement and the rest of the contract. Scope defines whether you, or I, are Delta pilots and what we fly. Scope defines who our union represents.
Our MEC's only leverage is the power of representing Delta pilots. Our power is a direct function of our pilots. If we outsource, that power declines. With less power comes poorer results and the declining trend lines we have only recent seen turn around.
Scope is a leading indicator for our bargaining results in other areas of the contract. To gain in these consensus areas, we need a foundation.
Thank you for your response.
What I am trying to convey is that scope is the foundation for our ability to negotiate pay, retirement and the rest of the contract. Scope defines whether you, or I, are Delta pilots and what we fly. Scope defines who our union represents.
Our MEC's only leverage is the power of representing Delta pilots. Our power is a direct function of our pilots. If we outsource, that power declines. With less power comes poorer results and the declining trend lines we have only recent seen turn around.
Scope is a leading indicator for our bargaining results in other areas of the contract. To gain in these consensus areas, we need a foundation.
So I gave O'Malley a chance, and he did exactly what Moak did. No mention of Scope at all. Should this lessen my suscpicion of the motives of ALPA...and now DALPA? If you know that DPA's main criticism against you is the conflict of interest about Scope and dual representation, why would you choose NOT to mention Scope? Even if you didn't mean it, it would only have taken one additional bullet point. I simply don't understand why one additional line was just impossible for O'Malley to write.
Carl
01-01-2011, 01:29 PM
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B-7ER JFK
Posts: 931
Originally Posted by Columbia
Scope and its protection is the most important issue at both SWAPA and CALALPA, fwiw. Nothing moves there without first addressing it.
01-01-2011, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Columbia
Scope and its protection is the most important issue at both SWAPA and CALALPA, fwiw. Nothing moves there without first addressing it.
Carl
01-01-2011, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by alfaromeo
OK Carl, I have asked you multiple times to name the first. Please, we are all ears. All you say is "you don't know what you're talking about" and then you hurl an insult. So just answer the question, who was the first group that did what we did.
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
...the gains we made in the merger were the first time ever this happened in the history of aviation. Just wanted to make Carl's head spin around again.
Carl
01-01-2011, 03:08 PM
Can't abide NAI
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Posts: 12,012
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
So I gave O'Malley a chance, and he did exactly what Moak did. No mention of Scope at all. Should this lessen my suscpicion of the motives of ALPA...and now DALPA? If you know that DPA's main criticism against you is the conflict of interest about Scope and dual representation, why would you choose NOT to mention Scope? Even if you didn't mean it, it would only have taken one additional bullet point. I simply don't understand why one additional line was just impossible for O'Malley to write.
Carl
Carl
Your logic on this is sound.
01-01-2011, 03:26 PM
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,923
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Now, THERE'S a surprise!
PG,
I agree with Carl - Why not even a mention of Scope?
As Dr Evil would say "Throw me a fricking bone people - at least acknowledge that Scope issues exist."Scoop
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