I've heard countless times that long haul flying affords a higher QOL and is less stressful than 4 day, 15 leg, 22-hour DC-9/MD-88/90 trips.
What happens to pay rates if the Company decides to park widebodies? It's a way for them to control payscales.
Finally, if BA has a longevity pay system, let's get feedback from their pilot group as to how it's working over there. Or has dalpa already had in depth discussions with them to see if it is something which makes sense?

 

As I see it, the point being made is, all categories would be really senior, then really junior allowing less downbids and backfilling to furlough. You could uniformly cut capacity across the board with less of an effect wrt to cost and training. The flex would be much easier to manage for the company than the current pay system.

APA has new hires on the whale, we do not. Pay is the reason guys sit reserve on it when they can hold better trips on lower paying jets. Take that away and really junior pilots will get to fly the 744/777 as those guys that are currently doing no longer have a pay incentive.

 

I thought you weren't discussing this anymore?

I wasn't making a value judgement on either system, but I was answering Columbia's question. I'm pretty sure people are driven by money towards higher-paying categories, which forces them to make QOL compromises. I think you and I agree on this point. And this is a pro-LBP observation. You do have some valid points, after all. There are other reasons I think LBP is not a great idea, but I wasn't debating them here. And neither one of us is saying 744's will be parked. But you said, in the context of that hypothetical, that it should show us all the value of a LBP system. Ufortunately, your timing is poor: it's pretty obvious that a LBP, by allowing people to distribute more evenly based on QOL decisions, would actualy create a less "stovepipe-like" environment where it would be easy to curtail flying, either fleet-by-fleet, or system-wide. And it would be a cinch to furlough, because the distribution of junior pilots would be more even across fleets.

 

Who's APA? American? If so, every junior pilot (read:12 year+ seniority/longevity) is on the -80 on reserve. Same with UAL and US. The only thing a 12+ year junior pilots can hold at each of these companies is reserve on the smallest/lowest paying plane they have. The current system certainly didn't stop them from furloughing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't junior pilots at each of those Co's be paid more as their pay were based on longevity? They are now and have been effectively stuck at narrowbody pay scales for years. Thx-just trying to truly understand both arguments.

 

I am asking the most junior guy on this board right now: Since it is apparent that there will be no hiring for the forseeable future, would you like to have the potential opportunity to be able to fly the 777/747/330/7ER... on reserve.. as you are now... or would you rather be shoehorned into the DC9 right seat.. like you are now? Yup.. QOL might be the same.. but opportunity might be better for that guy. It's not ALL about the money.. but I could be wrong.

 

Yessir, you betcha.

 

Your argument about furlough is scare tactics. They will furlough when it is economically feasible to do so, and the continuation about it being easier to do with an evenly distributed seniority list is hogwash. But let's suppose what you say is true. Why would the then barely-able-to-hold a line guy on the 737 who would now be a reserve guy not displace to the 320 where he would hold a solid line.. and here's the tricky part... and NOT TAKE A PAYCUT to do so? Hmmmmm he has his QOL and his pay intact.

 

Gentlemen, he's got a point.

If we divorce pay from productivity the net result will be decreased compensation for pilots nearing their retirement years and increased pressure to outsource small jet flying.

 

Full of pointless scare tactics that have no basis in reality, but yeah I guess he does.

 

Apparently it's still hot in the kitchen. My pictures are not distracting enough. Try this....