Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
03-17-2011 | 10:23 AM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
The differential between current rate and fifith year rate is about 15 bucks an hr, give or take. Yes, I was hired earlier rather than later, or really late in the general process, depending on how you are looking at it! 
Point is that I would be in the bottom 1% versus where I am now. It has been the same for all hiring waves though out the history of a seniority based system. Just ask the 86 sans the 88/89 crowd. Lets not mention the poor 91 hires.
If we were stovepiped which would be akin to the current system I have a better QOL today, and an even better QOL of later. I would make more money too, just not in ATL(today)
If we went to a longevity based system, I would make whatever the median rate would be, so about what I make today, and I would be on a bigger jet with about the same QOL I have now.
The LBS works better for guys hired at the end of waves and hurts the other 75-80% of people hired in those same waves. (honest opinion) Like I said, I suspect we would see everything really senior and really junior since pay would no longer be an object. The bottom 11% of the list would be on reserve and the rest would find lines. Sounds great, but the reality is some choose reserve for a reason. Money is one of them, and so is the ability to not fly as much.
QOL and its definition is different to each of us. It also chances as one gets older. For me a guy who has a wife that works full time and young kiddos; weekends off is key. For a pilot that is on his second marriage who is married to a FA and has grown kids, weekends mean nothing but holidays do. Holidays are defined differently for each of us to . Some want Christmas off, Some Chinese New year, some Passover, some the Greek New Year or Christmas, some none, but like to be off in the middle of the week when the stores are less crowded. The point is that trying to define a pay system by QOL is like using fuzzy math. Its value is different for each of us.
One last point. We are looking at a LBS because of what we see today, but forget that the trajectory will change quickly here to most if not all of us being A's or senior WB FO's over the next few years (Retirements, and an assumed status quo) Point is both systems have pluses and minuses, but as Sink has pointed out, the biggest detractor to the LBS is the ability to quickly rationalize the list due to where the most junior pilots will be sitting. It is a valid point and one that does not need to be brushed over.
Point is that I would be in the bottom 1% versus where I am now. It has been the same for all hiring waves though out the history of a seniority based system. Just ask the 86 sans the 88/89 crowd. Lets not mention the poor 91 hires.
If we were stovepiped which would be akin to the current system I have a better QOL today, and an even better QOL of later. I would make more money too, just not in ATL(today)
If we went to a longevity based system, I would make whatever the median rate would be, so about what I make today, and I would be on a bigger jet with about the same QOL I have now.
The LBS works better for guys hired at the end of waves and hurts the other 75-80% of people hired in those same waves. (honest opinion) Like I said, I suspect we would see everything really senior and really junior since pay would no longer be an object. The bottom 11% of the list would be on reserve and the rest would find lines. Sounds great, but the reality is some choose reserve for a reason. Money is one of them, and so is the ability to not fly as much.
QOL and its definition is different to each of us. It also chances as one gets older. For me a guy who has a wife that works full time and young kiddos; weekends off is key. For a pilot that is on his second marriage who is married to a FA and has grown kids, weekends mean nothing but holidays do. Holidays are defined differently for each of us to . Some want Christmas off, Some Chinese New year, some Passover, some the Greek New Year or Christmas, some none, but like to be off in the middle of the week when the stores are less crowded. The point is that trying to define a pay system by QOL is like using fuzzy math. Its value is different for each of us.
One last point. We are looking at a LBS because of what we see today, but forget that the trajectory will change quickly here to most if not all of us being A's or senior WB FO's over the next few years (Retirements, and an assumed status quo) Point is both systems have pluses and minuses, but as Sink has pointed out, the biggest detractor to the LBS is the ability to quickly rationalize the list due to where the most junior pilots will be sitting. It is a valid point and one that does not need to be brushed over.
03-17-2011 | 10:24 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
03-17-2011 | 10:27 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
Would it be fair to say that the airplane that Boeing designed for cargo is best at carrying tonnage?
Or look at this way, according to Boeing, 70% of the 107 748 orders are for the freighter version. With the 777 only 7% have been the freighter versions. Moving forward with the 777s 263 aircraft backlog 75% are 773s and only 17% are freighters.
Looks as if your right bar in the sense that the 773 is a winner, with lots of wins, more wins than the 747 while it's standing the kitchen making coffee in the morning. But when it comes to the heavy tonnage flying the 747 is the winner, with more wins. If you're route can take 400 passengers the 747 is there.
http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...&pageid=m15525
03-17-2011 | 10:27 AM
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From: A-320A
Originally Posted by acl65pilot 
As I see it, the point being made is, all categories would be really senior, then really junior allowing less downbids and backfilling to furlough. You could uniformly cut capacity across the board with less of an effect wrt to cost and training. The flex would be much easier to manage for the company than the current pay system.
As I see it, the point being made is, all categories would be really senior, then really junior allowing less downbids and backfilling to furlough. You could uniformly cut capacity across the board with less of an effect wrt to cost and training. The flex would be much easier to manage for the company than the current pay system.
tsquare
I am asking the most junior guy on this board right now: Since it is apparent that there will be no hiring for the forseeable future, would you like to have the potential opportunity to be able to fly the 777/747/330/7ER... on reserve.. as you are now... or would you rather be shoehorned into the DC9 right seat.. like you are now? Yup.. QOL might be the same.. but opportunity might be better for that guy. It's not ALL about the money.. but I could be wrong.
I am asking the most junior guy on this board right now: Since it is apparent that there will be no hiring for the forseeable future, would you like to have the potential opportunity to be able to fly the 777/747/330/7ER... on reserve.. as you are now... or would you rather be shoehorned into the DC9 right seat.. like you are now? Yup.. QOL might be the same.. but opportunity might be better for that guy. It's not ALL about the money.. but I could be wrong.
03-17-2011 | 10:28 AM
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From: A-320A
03-17-2011 | 10:32 AM
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From: A-320A
Fact is a lot of guys are for your type of pay system T. Pointing out a negative like Sink did that makes sense is good practice. With the retirements coming your response should be that that fear of easy furloughs for those currently on the list is unwarranted and therefore negated which makes the LBS the way to go.
I can argue both sides.
03-17-2011 | 10:42 AM
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From: A-320A
T;
You could also argue that a LBS makes sense for the JR pilots as they would get more pay now rather than later. That is important given the fact that compounding is how we will get the required funds for retirement.
The realities are that the LBS will save a ton in training costs which we will not come close to seeing converted to our pay, the issue sink pointed out, more money now, a bigger disparity in bidding authority(not QOL) from Junior to Senior, more pay now, a greater leveling of pay, and a ton more. The issue is contentious because there are really good pros and cons. A debate as always is warranted, but keep it civil.
You could also argue that a LBS makes sense for the JR pilots as they would get more pay now rather than later. That is important given the fact that compounding is how we will get the required funds for retirement.
The realities are that the LBS will save a ton in training costs which we will not come close to seeing converted to our pay, the issue sink pointed out, more money now, a bigger disparity in bidding authority(not QOL) from Junior to Senior, more pay now, a greater leveling of pay, and a ton more. The issue is contentious because there are really good pros and cons. A debate as always is warranted, but keep it civil.
03-17-2011 | 10:46 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
From what I understand, there is a jet and crew in place to evacuate the entire place at a moments notice. Our VP of Flying Operations is over there as well as his and the SVP's SAS's. MEC is to have a meet and greet there next weekend.
Trust me, if it gets to a point where safety truly becomes a question, we will be out of there. (at least that is what I have been told by multiple ppl)
Trust me, if it gets to a point where safety truly becomes a question, we will be out of there. (at least that is what I have been told by multiple ppl)
Carl
03-17-2011 | 10:48 AM
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From: 747-400 Captain
03-17-2011 | 10:48 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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Here's to you, Mr Sacre Tactic Filled Bull**** Man!
Happy now?
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