Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-31-2011, 10:38 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
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Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Reroute
That is not a true statement at all. That is speculation. Even if DAL had merged with ASA and CMR there was no requirement to have all DCI flying flown by DAL/ASA/CMR, the growth could have gone to the other DCI carriers, as it did in some circumstances, and DAL still would have retired all the MD-11s, L1011s, 727s, 737,300s and 737-200s, which would have most likely resulted in furloughs.
Let's be honest, DAL bought ASA/CMR for the cheaper labor. Merging ASA/CMR with DAL defeats that purpose. If they wanted DAL pilots to fly 50/70 seat RJs they didn't need to buy ASA/CMR or outsource to the DCI portfolio, they could have just bought the aircraft and put them on the DAL certificate.
It's all about cheap labor, look at what's happening at CMR today, that's what would have happened earlier rather than later had we merged.
The solution was not to merge with ASA/CMR, it was to capture the flying, barring that, to have adequate flow through protections to every carrier that signs a contract at DCI. JMHO.
Let's be honest, DAL bought ASA/CMR for the cheaper labor. Merging ASA/CMR with DAL defeats that purpose. If they wanted DAL pilots to fly 50/70 seat RJs they didn't need to buy ASA/CMR or outsource to the DCI portfolio, they could have just bought the aircraft and put them on the DAL certificate.
It's all about cheap labor, look at what's happening at CMR today, that's what would have happened earlier rather than later had we merged.
The solution was not to merge with ASA/CMR, it was to capture the flying, barring that, to have adequate flow through protections to every carrier that signs a contract at DCI. JMHO.
If that hadn't been the goal sure the CRJ-100 might have shown up on DAL's property nearly 20 years ago and probably would've been gone at least 10 years ago.
One of the issues now is that we're left holding the bag for the long term ramifications of outsourcing from 20 years ago and the failure of the pilot representatives to understand and purposefully halt it.
Am I wrong to think DAL signed off on long term agreements with DCI for airplanes they don't want anymore but now are stuck with in numbers so large it negatively effects us, our airline and our flying?
Oil at $100bb isn't a bad thing imo if it squeezes out 50 seaters and we're left concentrating on the E-Jet and elongated CRJs that are meant to replace 732s and DC9s.
05-31-2011, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Reroute
That is not a true statement at all. That is speculation.
Thank goodness the Delta MEC was did not want to try what Pinnacle achieved with Colgan.
Put a thousand on the street, divide up the list between the fearful and the greedy, then let them beat the crap out of each other using interest based bargaining ... that's what I'd do. With this much scope exposure your union has got a runner caught between bases, all we've got to do is run them down.
Last edited by Jabberwock; 05-31-2011 at 11:24 AM.
05-31-2011, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Jabberwock
Yeah speculation. Thank goodness the Delta MEC was unwilling to try what Pinnacle achieved with Colgan.
Pinnacle and Colgan are fee for departure airlines, not mainline, merging their lists did not capture any flying.
05-31-2011, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
One of the issues now is that we're left holding the bag for the long term ramifications of outsourcing from 20 years ago and the failure of the pilot representatives to understand and purposefully halt it.
I clearly remember jumpseating on a 767 discussing C2K and the 70 seater when the captain, based on all of his airline experience and wisdom
, confidently stated; "don't ever worry about an aircraft below your seniority number."
05-31-2011, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Reroute
And your point is? No furloughs? No parking 200 mainline aircraft? No portfolio at DCI? All we had to do was merge lists and we would have been in a pilots paradise these last 10 years?
Pinnacle and Colgan are fee for departure airlines, not mainline, merging their lists did not capture any flying.
Pinnacle and Colgan are fee for departure airlines, not mainline, merging their lists did not capture any flying.
No furloughs -> DCI hired many more pilots than Delta furloughed. Furloughs would have been avoided if Delta pilots performed Delta system flying.
No parking 200 mainline aircraft -> Sure. DCI ended up acquiring about 750 airframes. Depending on how you describe "mainline" jets, there was growth in the last decade which could have been mainline growth. As a company Delta grew over the last decade.
The union's job is not to create paradise. The union's number one task is to protect jobs, longevity and seniority. Had the union focused on this task many mainline pilots would have kept their jobs and advanced to the left seat (not just at Delta, but at every airline that allowed outsourcing).
In effect, management captured flying when they acquired another airline's code. That flying became D-ALPA's flying. D-ALPA did not wish to perform that flying and instead attempted to capitalize on outsourcing it. It was a decent economic strategy at its inception, but the reality remains that unions only and best strength is unity. Any time that is traded away the result eventually will be harm to the members who's jobs are lost and concessions for the rest of the membership as the union in it's entirety is weakened.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 05-31-2011 at 11:49 AM.
05-31-2011, 11:44 AM
Back on TDY
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by FIIGMO
Back at you Ferd! SO relieved that you did not have a green psoriasis condition!
FTB needs to be the party planner for sure. Something tells me he is into that whole Hookers and Fire Trucks party theme!
FTB needs to be the party planner for sure. Something tells me he is into that whole Hookers and Fire Trucks party theme!
Carl
05-31-2011, 12:02 PM
At home on the maddog!
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Position: ATL MD-88A
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Originally Posted by georgetg
Since the history of major airlines pay rates vs Southwest keeps coming up, here's a chart from Southwest's SWAPA:
(keep in mind that DAL traditionally was at or near the top of the major airline pay scales so move that orage "industry" line up a few thou...)
Source: SWAPALuv | Your Source of Information on the Southwest/Airtran Acquisition
Cheers
George
(keep in mind that DAL traditionally was at or near the top of the major airline pay scales so move that orage "industry" line up a few thou...)
Source: SWAPALuv | Your Source of Information on the Southwest/Airtran Acquisition
Cheers
George
05-31-2011, 12:10 PM
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One of my friends at SWA with the average amount of trips flown like in the brochure said that was about 60 hours a month!!!
05-31-2011, 12:21 PM
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Posts: 2,530
Originally Posted by TheWagman
One of my friends at SWA with the average amount of trips flown like in the brochure said that was about 60 hours a month!!!
05-31-2011, 12:31 PM
Back on TDY
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
With three part harmony you each accept alter ego replacement of our pilots.
The only "acceptance" I see is you and acl saying you want to fix ALPA from within. This is our current reality. What is the Bucking Bar plan to change the contract language?
Carl
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