Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-31-2011, 08:19 PM
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Joined APC: May 2008
Position: Uncoveraged...
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Those are good dots.
You stealing ACL's dots? Don't be takin' his dots.
You stealing ACL's dots? Don't be takin' his dots.
Wouldn't dream of it!
Just listening and reading when folks have something to say, lookin' at some numbers, and occasionaly reading APC forums
07-31-2011, 10:52 PM
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Posts: 784
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
That's what I thought. Two things are going to be VERY interesting:
1. If the MEC even allows that travesty to go to a vote. (a good pay raise in exchange for throwing their pilot group's seniority under a monster truck)
2. If the MEC does allow it to go for a vote, whether or not they "promote" it.
1. If the MEC even allows that travesty to go to a vote. (a good pay raise in exchange for throwing their pilot group's seniority under a monster truck)
2. If the MEC does allow it to go for a vote, whether or not they "promote" it.
Will ALPA national get involved on behalf of AT?
And if not how long before a DFR is filed by AT F/O's if this goes through?
Feeling the LUV
08-01-2011, 02:31 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Originally Posted by scambo1
Okay, I see how you want to play this.
We were in agreement on what was fair...privately. We both agree that it was not what we thought would be "fair."
Can someone post the Air Tran merger fragementation language again?
If it wasn't followed, ALPA did some screwin'.
We were in agreement on what was fair...privately. We both agree that it was not what we thought would be "fair."
Can someone post the Air Tran merger fragementation language again?
If it wasn't followed, ALPA did some screwin'.
BUT... that doesn't mean ALPA National influenced this to SWAPA's advantage.
What it DOES mean, is that SWAPA is (again) showing their true colors as they have in all previous mergers. They have a pilot group that mirrors the AMR group in self-centeredness to screw the merging pilots.
08-01-2011, 03:26 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Scambo, you are right, and I still believe what we privately discussed is fair -- much more fair than what I've seen is going to be the final SLI.
BUT... that doesn't mean ALPA National influenced this to SWAPA's advantage.
What it DOES mean, is that SWAPA is (again) showing their true colors as they have in all previous mergers. They have a pilot group that mirrors the AMR group in self-centeredness to screw the merging pilots.
BUT... that doesn't mean ALPA National influenced this to SWAPA's advantage.
What it DOES mean, is that SWAPA is (again) showing their true colors as they have in all previous mergers. They have a pilot group that mirrors the AMR group in self-centeredness to screw the merging pilots.
(How's that for mediation?)
08-01-2011, 03:31 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Scambo, you are right, and I still believe what we privately discussed is fair -- much more fair than what I've seen is going to be the final SLI.
BUT... that doesn't mean ALPA National influenced this to SWAPA's advantage.
What it DOES mean, is that SWAPA is (again) showing their true colors as they have in all previous mergers. They have a pilot group that mirrors the AMR group in self-centeredness to screw the merging pilots.
BUT... that doesn't mean ALPA National influenced this to SWAPA's advantage.
What it DOES mean, is that SWAPA is (again) showing their true colors as they have in all previous mergers. They have a pilot group that mirrors the AMR group in self-centeredness to screw the merging pilots.
PG;
I'm NOT going to let you hide behind ALPA natl's little blurb in their merger policy where they say they are a neutral. Its a one liner. The SW group is extorting seniority here from AT. I have said all along that this sli was the test of ALPA's relevance.
If this is the joint position that will get sent to the pilots for a vote, I have to ask you or anyone; what is the point of having ALPA at all? aeromedical? (Which I beleive is getting spun off).
If alpa allows its pilot groups to be held at gunpoint and robbed by a little union that has "never raised the bar on anything" how can anyone say alpa is worth even having around. McFly...
08-01-2011, 03:32 AM
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Posts: 1,462
Originally Posted by tsquare
Interesting thing is though, will NATIONAL do anything if the ATI guys vote this down, and are subsequently parted out by SWA? This is huge IMHO, because SWA has devised an end around for what should be a fair merger of equals. (regardless of what the SWA guys think) I'm betting that ALPA will say too bad so sad, and then you will owe the Charitable fund $100 bucks.
(How's that for mediation?)
(How's that for mediation?)
Having said that, to call SWA and AirTran "equals" is to deny reality. They fly the same airplanes, generally, but that's where the equality stops.
I still don't think the current SLI proposal is fair, but I'm not an AirTran pilot. They will get to decide that for themselves.
08-01-2011, 03:51 AM
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Still in one
Posts: 784
Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Scambo, you are right, and I still believe what we privately discussed is fair -- much more fair than what I've seen is going to be the final SLI.
BUT... that doesn't mean ALPA National influenced this to SWAPA's advantage.
What it DOES mean, is that SWAPA is (again) showing their true colors as they have in all previous mergers. They have a pilot group that mirrors the AMR group in self-centeredness to screw the merging pilots.
BUT... that doesn't mean ALPA National influenced this to SWAPA's advantage.
What it DOES mean, is that SWAPA is (again) showing their true colors as they have in all previous mergers. They have a pilot group that mirrors the AMR group in self-centeredness to screw the merging pilots.
08-01-2011, 03:56 AM
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by tsquare
Interesting thing is though, will NATIONAL do anything if the ATI guys vote this down, and are subsequently parted out by SWA? This is huge IMHO, because SWA has devised an end around for what should be a fair merger of equals. (regardless of what the SWA guys think) I'm betting that ALPA will say too bad so sad, and then you will owe the Charitable fund $100 bucks.
(How's that for mediation?)
(How's that for mediation?)
08-01-2011, 04:01 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Originally Posted by scambo1
PG;
I'm NOT going to let you hide behind ALPA natl's little blurb in their merger policy where they say they are a neutral. Its a one liner. The SW group is extorting seniority here from AT. I have said all along that this sli was the test of ALPA's relevance.
If this is the joint position that will get sent to the pilots for a vote, I have to ask you or anyone; what is the point of having ALPA at all? aeromedical? (Which I beleive is getting spun off).
If alpa allows its pilot groups to be held at gunpoint and robbed by a little union that has "never raised the bar on anything" how can anyone say alpa is worth even having around. McFly...
I'm NOT going to let you hide behind ALPA natl's little blurb in their merger policy where they say they are a neutral. Its a one liner. The SW group is extorting seniority here from AT. I have said all along that this sli was the test of ALPA's relevance.
If this is the joint position that will get sent to the pilots for a vote, I have to ask you or anyone; what is the point of having ALPA at all? aeromedical? (Which I beleive is getting spun off).
If alpa allows its pilot groups to be held at gunpoint and robbed by a little union that has "never raised the bar on anything" how can anyone say alpa is worth even having around. McFly...
ALPA can't make a relative seniority integration (or whatever anyone on this board deems is fair) happen. If the best legal minds say taking the current proposal to arbitration is the best approach, I would fully expect ALPA national to recommend that; if on the other hand, those same minds say that the risks outweigh the potential benefits, I would expect them to say that too. Then the AirTran pilots get to decide.
The fundamental difference between those involved in ALPA (at all levels, from pilots to lawyers, to other professionals) and those who post on this forum, is that ALPA has a responsibility to make judgements in the world we all live in; not the one we want to live in. Meaning, often times, a partial win is better than a swing for the fences and quite likely strike out. Whereas on this board, it is always easy to say you should swing for the fences, because that path is seldom taken, and so the strike outs never materialize. But when they do, the pain far exceeds that of a partial win. One need look no further than APA and USAPA to see that.
08-01-2011, 04:03 AM
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Originally Posted by TANSTAAFL
I bet if DAL bought an AT size/scale carrier many here would consider that a fair SLI
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