Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-25-2011, 06:24 PM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
I haven't seen the show so I don't know if you mean a 707 A was 32 or a DC-7, seriously doubt you'd have a young 707 A.
But fwiw I met a FAA inspector once out of MCI that was a retired TWA pilot that was hired in his early 20s with 300ish hours. He was flying for fun but went out and got his commercial so he could apply, or someone said if you go get it we'll interview you. Can't remember.
Started out on the Connie as a FE and I believe made Connie Captain while the airplane was on the way out. I want to say that was in the mid to late 1960s.
Super nice guy and the way he told the story I really don't think he was pulling my leg. In fact I know he didn't touch my leg. It was more of a "different time different place." I just remember thinking he was the kind of FAA guy I'd like to deal with.
Is the show any good?
09-25-2011, 06:38 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,324
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
First episode is on now fwiw
09-25-2011, 06:38 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
First episode is on now fwiw
The only other one is in our bedroom and my wife is sleeping so out of luck. But I was thinking, 1960s or 70s, women becoming FA's to see the world. It made me think of the 1950s home ec thing where it told women how to be housewives and I looked it up.
There's a line there I never noticed, I highlighted it, thought about a more provocative crowd pleasing pic but went with the horse...
for those who can't read it, it says "be a little gay and a little more interesting for him. His boring day may need a lift and one of your duties is to provide it."
hence the laughing horse.
09-25-2011, 06:38 PM
Inventory survival kit ..
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Seeking no jacket required rotations
Posts: 1,069
Just a general rant about ALPA surveys, openers, mediation and arbitration.
Surveys with non-published results have many problems and one benefit.
1. If you don't trust the organization commissioning the survey, you have a significant chance of disbelieving what you are "told" about the results.
2. There is no unanimous position. There is always a koolaid drinker, outlier, or neo nazi screwing up the curve on both sides of the mean/median.
3. If the opener does not meet your expectations, but you are told that it reflects the results of the survey, you cannot verify the claim unless one of the insiders breaks confidence and risks legal action from management or administrative action by ALPA.
4. The survey results may or may not have been reflected in the opener OR it could have been the labor attorneys that modified the opener to be "fair and reasonable" in front of a mediator. You still have no way to verify the claim.
5. If a survey has really bad results for your negotiating position and its made public, that is a huge weapon for management. If it has really good results vs. the opener its a big bonus for pilot negotiators.
6. If a survey results in respondents wanting a LOT more in the opener than ALPA asks for and its kept secret...
7. "Fair and Reasonable" sounds great in front of a mediator, but is really crappy in front of an arbitrator if management was asking for the moon and you did not. Arbitrators have a nasty habit of splitting the last negotiating positions down the middle. Why is this important? Ask yourself which side usually asks for a release from mediation and why.
An example would be if you use a number line from -100 to +100. Let's say our desired outcome is +20 widgets and management wants -30 widgets. We open "fair and reasonable" at about +40 and give ourselves a little room to bargain down. Management shoots for the moon and asks for -80. As we go through mediation, those positions will edge towards each other until either an impasse is reached OR one side caves in OR imo least likely both sides feel they have an equitable agreement.
At this point there are 2 options. ALPA asks for release to self help or both sides agree to binding arbitration.
If both sides have moved some amount towards each other in negotiation/mediation, guess where that leaves ALPA after an arbitration. In my example lets say ALPA has moved from 50 to 30 (secret no sh!t goal) and management (to make themselves look good in front of the mediator) has moved from -80 to -40 to (still better than their secret no sh!t goal). Arbitrator splits the baby and we end up at ... -5 widgets.
Fair and reasonable works great for a mediator, but imo it sucks balls after mediation fails and you go to binding arbitration. This is the thing I have hated the most about "fair and reasonable" for the last 20 years.
End rant.
Surveys with non-published results have many problems and one benefit.
1. If you don't trust the organization commissioning the survey, you have a significant chance of disbelieving what you are "told" about the results.
2. There is no unanimous position. There is always a koolaid drinker, outlier, or neo nazi screwing up the curve on both sides of the mean/median.
3. If the opener does not meet your expectations, but you are told that it reflects the results of the survey, you cannot verify the claim unless one of the insiders breaks confidence and risks legal action from management or administrative action by ALPA.
4. The survey results may or may not have been reflected in the opener OR it could have been the labor attorneys that modified the opener to be "fair and reasonable" in front of a mediator. You still have no way to verify the claim.
5. If a survey has really bad results for your negotiating position and its made public, that is a huge weapon for management. If it has really good results vs. the opener its a big bonus for pilot negotiators.
6. If a survey results in respondents wanting a LOT more in the opener than ALPA asks for and its kept secret...
7. "Fair and Reasonable" sounds great in front of a mediator, but is really crappy in front of an arbitrator if management was asking for the moon and you did not. Arbitrators have a nasty habit of splitting the last negotiating positions down the middle. Why is this important? Ask yourself which side usually asks for a release from mediation and why.
An example would be if you use a number line from -100 to +100. Let's say our desired outcome is +20 widgets and management wants -30 widgets. We open "fair and reasonable" at about +40 and give ourselves a little room to bargain down. Management shoots for the moon and asks for -80. As we go through mediation, those positions will edge towards each other until either an impasse is reached OR one side caves in OR imo least likely both sides feel they have an equitable agreement.
At this point there are 2 options. ALPA asks for release to self help or both sides agree to binding arbitration.
If both sides have moved some amount towards each other in negotiation/mediation, guess where that leaves ALPA after an arbitration. In my example lets say ALPA has moved from 50 to 30 (secret no sh!t goal) and management (to make themselves look good in front of the mediator) has moved from -80 to -40 to (still better than their secret no sh!t goal). Arbitrator splits the baby and we end up at ... -5 widgets.
Fair and reasonable works great for a mediator, but imo it sucks balls after mediation fails and you go to binding arbitration. This is the thing I have hated the most about "fair and reasonable" for the last 20 years.
End rant.
09-25-2011, 06:46 PM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by capncrunch
I don't have TV but am curious if the show is good, come back with a report.
I wish real life today was like the show lol
09-25-2011, 06:49 PM
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Capt
Posts: 2,041
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
It's not bad, being a pilot makes some of it seem cheesy but it has made me realize I was hired in the wrong era of aviation history though....
I wish real life today was like the show lol
I wish real life today was like the show lol
09-25-2011, 06:50 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,324
Originally Posted by Nosmo King
Just a general rant about ALPA surveys, openers, mediation and arbitration.
Surveys with non-published results have many problems and one benefit.
1. If you don't trust the organization commissioning the survey, you have a significant chance of disbelieving what you are "told" about the results.
2. There is no unanimous position. There is always a koolaid drinker, outlier, or neo nazi screwing up the curve on both sides of the mean/median.
3. If the opener does not meet your expectations, but you are told that it reflects the results of the survey, you cannot verify the claim unless one of the insiders breaks confidence and risks legal action from management or administrative action by ALPA.
4. The survey results may or may not have been reflected in the opener OR it could have been the labor attorneys that modified the opener to be "fair and reasonable" in front of a mediator. You still have no way to verify the claim.
5. If a survey has really bad results for your negotiating position and its made public, that is a huge weapon for management. If it has really good results vs. the opener its a big bonus for pilot negotiators.
6. If a survey results in respondents wanting a LOT more in the opener than ALPA asks for and its kept secret...
7. "Fair and Reasonable" sounds great in front of a mediator, but is really crappy in front of an arbitrator if management was asking for the moon and you did not. Arbitrators have a nasty habit of splitting the last negotiating positions down the middle. Why is this important? Ask yourself which side usually asks for a release from mediation and why.
An example would be if you use a number line from -100 to +100. Let's say our desired outcome is +20 widgets and management wants -30 widgets. We open "fair and reasonable" at about +40 and give ourselves a little room to bargain down. Management shoots for the moon and asks for -80. As we go through mediation, those positions will edge towards each other until either an impasse is reached OR one side caves in OR imo least likely both sides feel they have an equitable agreement.
At this point there are 2 options. ALPA asks for release to self help or both sides agree to binding arbitration.
If both sides have moved some amount towards each other in negotiation/mediation, guess where that leaves ALPA after an arbitration. In my example lets say ALPA has moved from 50 to 30 (secret no sh!t goal) and management (to make themselves look good in front of the mediator) has moved from -80 to -40 to (still better than their secret no sh!t goal). Arbitrator splits the baby and we end up at ... -5 widgets.
Fair and reasonable works great for a mediator, but imo it sucks balls after mediation fails and you go to binding arbitration. This is the thing I have hated the most about "fair and reasonable" for the last 20 years.
End rant.
Surveys with non-published results have many problems and one benefit.
1. If you don't trust the organization commissioning the survey, you have a significant chance of disbelieving what you are "told" about the results.
2. There is no unanimous position. There is always a koolaid drinker, outlier, or neo nazi screwing up the curve on both sides of the mean/median.
3. If the opener does not meet your expectations, but you are told that it reflects the results of the survey, you cannot verify the claim unless one of the insiders breaks confidence and risks legal action from management or administrative action by ALPA.
4. The survey results may or may not have been reflected in the opener OR it could have been the labor attorneys that modified the opener to be "fair and reasonable" in front of a mediator. You still have no way to verify the claim.
5. If a survey has really bad results for your negotiating position and its made public, that is a huge weapon for management. If it has really good results vs. the opener its a big bonus for pilot negotiators.
6. If a survey results in respondents wanting a LOT more in the opener than ALPA asks for and its kept secret...
7. "Fair and Reasonable" sounds great in front of a mediator, but is really crappy in front of an arbitrator if management was asking for the moon and you did not. Arbitrators have a nasty habit of splitting the last negotiating positions down the middle. Why is this important? Ask yourself which side usually asks for a release from mediation and why.
An example would be if you use a number line from -100 to +100. Let's say our desired outcome is +20 widgets and management wants -30 widgets. We open "fair and reasonable" at about +40 and give ourselves a little room to bargain down. Management shoots for the moon and asks for -80. As we go through mediation, those positions will edge towards each other until either an impasse is reached OR one side caves in OR imo least likely both sides feel they have an equitable agreement.
At this point there are 2 options. ALPA asks for release to self help or both sides agree to binding arbitration.
If both sides have moved some amount towards each other in negotiation/mediation, guess where that leaves ALPA after an arbitration. In my example lets say ALPA has moved from 50 to 30 (secret no sh!t goal) and management (to make themselves look good in front of the mediator) has moved from -80 to -40 to (still better than their secret no sh!t goal). Arbitrator splits the baby and we end up at ... -5 widgets.
Fair and reasonable works great for a mediator, but imo it sucks balls after mediation fails and you go to binding arbitration. This is the thing I have hated the most about "fair and reasonable" for the last 20 years.
End rant.
09-25-2011, 06:55 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Originally Posted by boog123
What are you talking about, my first TOE in June was with a Pan Am girl at A line. ;(
But we don't have the L1011 elevator anymore because we don't have the L1011's because they were deemed to be too old. The flight attendants on the other hand, who are older than the L1011, are still here.
But not everyone is 80ktsclamp...
I kid. FA's I fly with, vast vast vast majority, do a great job and that's all I care about.
09-25-2011, 06:56 PM
Underboob King
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Guppy Commander
Posts: 4,412
Originally Posted by boog123
What are you talking about, my first TOE in June was with a Pan Am girl at A line. ;(
09-25-2011, 07:18 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,847
Grumpage level increased from "meh" to "hrmph"....
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