Originally Posted by johnso29

First of all, it's not a silly game because the person I was responding to was a PMNW pilot who bid from DTW to ATL so he did have a choice. Second, plenty of pain is being spread around. What do you think happened to PMNW DTW 757 guys when the CVG 7er category was closed? Most of them came to DTW pushing DTW guys down and out of the category. What do you think is happening to PMNW guys who are in the DTW 320 category now that we are opening a ATL 320 base? Yup, they're losing seniority in category or they're losing their seat altogether.

Second, I stated that it is silly to think that 2 Legacy airlines whom merged in order to LOWER costs would magically grow. The whole purpose of the merger is consolidation. So it really shouldn't be any shock that there are now LESS pilots on our list then when we merged.

Third, I was never going to tell you to just leave. You're entitled to your opinion, I just don't have to agree with you. Many people are disappointed with the way this career has steered lately, and I don't blame them. It is drastically different from what they expected. For others, it's everything they wanted and they accept the ups and downs. With 12,000 pilots we will have many, many different opinions.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

That is one more item that SWAPA has done to undercut the rest of the industry.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

DAL is already doing this to a lesser degree, but with a level of insulation. DAL has gone to Western Michigan and started a program where they select candidates to enter said program. These pilot candidates then generally go to a DCI carrier, spend a few years there, get a 73N type scholarship, then interview here. If one is savvy enough they can be at DAL before 25.

I can tell you that they have and continue to have huge success with this. I also expect to see DAL enlarge this sort of program going forward.

Originally Posted by Check Essential

There are lots of ways to bump our compensation besides increasing the pay rates and making headlines with a huge percentage number. Of course we raise the rates, but we also make vacation and training worth 4 hours per day. Raise the reserve guarantee to 80 hours. Change the trip rigs and rotation guarantees. Bring back night pay. Raise per diem. Increase the international over-ride. And on and on.
You can do all of that kind of stuff and Wall Street and the other employee groups don't really count it as a huge "pay raise". They don't understand our contract well enough to realize what happened.
We can increase our bottom line by 50% without raising our pay rates by 50%.

Originally Posted by FlyZ

Johnso,
We are probably in similar places on the list. My number has probably decreased by about 500 as well. But has your biddding power or QOL improved by 4% as a result of that decrease? Mine definitely has not. I can not even hold the same flying I held three years ago. Since my actual number is decreasing, I can only attribue this to the farming out of our flying that Delta has done and DALPA has accepted as good for the company and good for the pilots.

Like I mentioned in a previous post, Delta would only need to reduce our mainline flying by 2-3% per year to completely erase any seniority gains we might be expecting as a result of retirements. 2-3% is easy...they have been throwing around numbers like 4%, 7%, and 10% cuts since I got here. That's starting a few new codeshares, growing Alaska, filling A380s for AF/KLM, or (I'm afraid next) Aeromexico. Our seniority numbers WILL continue to get smaller, but they aren't adding anyone below us (essentially furloughing off the top).

I do my best to use rose colored glasses, but the future isn't too bright if the last few years are any indication of which way the company is headed. It may only feel this way, but it seems one of the company's primary staffing goals is to avoid hiring mainline pilots at almost any cost.

Originally Posted by johnso29

I'm also not holding a line out of seniority. My seniority in my category and base holds it. I hold a line on the M88 in NYC & the DC9 in DTW & MSP. Those guys junior to me aren't holding it out of seniority. It's what their seniority holds. You hold a line here at Delta. It's just not in the base or on the equipment you want it to be.

Originally Posted by nwaf16dude

The guy playing the Captain on the new Pan Am show is 32 years old. I guess only actual airline pilots will realize how completely ridiculous that is.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar

It is pretty easy to have "huge success" giving away a $300,000 gift to a $4,000,000 + career. Where do we sign up?

The problem is ... the program is highly discriminatory.

Further, in Europe & Asia these programs have led to a sort of indentured servitude where 5,500 applicants fight for a dozen spots and then realize the training contract ain't all that, so they end up bidding a trip and phoning in the "I quit" from an outstation.

With 12,000 applicants at Delta, at least 5,000 of whom have already been flying Delta passengers for most of a decade and several thousand who would make good Delta pilots, I just don't see why you and me should be eager to share our (pick one CAPEX for new airplanes, or, profit sharing) with a wanna be who put nothing into the effort but a X chromosome.