Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-26-2011 | 08:58 AM
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Hoist by yer own petard. Pardon me if I chuckle just a little bit.
Nu
09-26-2011 | 09:11 AM
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
The point is, it was not a status quo merger. Some people were going to be able to bid better than they currently held, other people were going to get displaced.
09-26-2011 | 09:12 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
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From: Light Chop
09-26-2011 | 09:41 AM
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Might be a hard sell to the fDAL peeps, tho...other than the 200 or so that did worse than DOH. You might need to work on that.
Nu
09-26-2011 | 09:51 AM
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From: Boardroom Chair
NuGuy,
We can all at least agree, the only people that would get DOH in a merger are Comair!
(the answer for every question you ask around here)
Why can't we have better scope?
Why can't we perform our own flying?
Why can't we staple Compass?
Why don't the Starbucks at the Atlanta Airport have an employee discount?
We can all at least agree, the only people that would get DOH in a merger are Comair!
(the answer for every question you ask around here)
Why can't we have better scope?
Why can't we perform our own flying?
Why can't we staple Compass?
Why don't the Starbucks at the Atlanta Airport have an employee discount?
09-26-2011 | 10:06 AM
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That would certainly be my guess. Why would the union want to let management know exactly what the pilot group wants the most. I know, I know, they already know pay and scope but what about other priorities? I highly doubt we will see the results of the survey or see what our contract opening position will be in anything other than generalizations.
Denny
Denny
Not saying you wrong here 80, but I've thought about it, and I can't seem to see that perspective. I'd want my cards hidden if I was gambling, but we are negotiating here, not gambling. The only thing I could see is if we low-balled ourselves, but I seriously don't see that happening.
The way I see it, management is going to see where the pilot group sits when negotiations begin, so what harm could it do to let them get an idea of where most of us sit now?
We are not talking about our opener here, just where the pilot community sits on major key contractual issues.
Keeping the survey results classified to only our negotiators doesn't seem fair to me. Why should our union negotiators and management be the only two sides privy to all aspects and positions of our contract negotiation when, ultimately, we are the ones who have to vote on it???
09-26-2011 | 10:11 AM
Line Holder
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It wasn't at the time. Flying Tigers (later FedEx, had a 21 year old 727 Captain) both he and his son are friends. Jets brought explosive growth to the carriers in the middle to late 1960's. The "competitive qualifications" back then would shock you. United was hiring with a PPL and training!
Another dear family friend, recently departed, made Captain at Delta in his second year of employment (Capt. Sonny McDowell)
Another dear family friend, recently departed, made Captain at Delta in his second year of employment (Capt. Sonny McDowell)
09-26-2011 | 10:13 AM
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Definitely NOT. It would be way too helpful to the other side.
Management would love to see those results. They MUST be kept confidential.
We just have to trust our guys. I trust them.
Fears of ALPA insiders manipulating the results are just silly.
A lot of people will see those results. The number of people involved in any "conspiracy" to hide or alter the survey results would have to be pretty large. Somebody would blow the whistle.
Its true the negotiators may not follow the survey to the letter when they sit down at the table. That's completely understandable. They will have to come up with a strategy and prioritize their demands based on many factors besides just the survey. The main influence will obviously be the opponent's position. You never know where they will fight the hardest.
Plus, Wall Street and the other employee groups will be watching. There are lots of ways to bump our compensation besides increasing the pay rates and making headlines with a huge percentage number. Of course we raise the rates, but we also make vacation and training worth 4 hours per day. Raise the reserve guarantee to 80 hours. Change the trip rigs and rotation guarantees. Bring back night pay. Raise per diem. Increase the international over-ride. And on and on.
You can do all of that kind of stuff and Wall Street and the other employee groups don't really count it as a huge "pay raise". They don't understand our contract well enough to realize what happened.
We can increase our bottom line by 50% without raising our pay rates by 50%.
The negotiators will need some flexibility. The survey is a tool. It is not some sort of binding document.
Management would love to see those results. They MUST be kept confidential.
We just have to trust our guys. I trust them.
Fears of ALPA insiders manipulating the results are just silly.
A lot of people will see those results. The number of people involved in any "conspiracy" to hide or alter the survey results would have to be pretty large. Somebody would blow the whistle.
Its true the negotiators may not follow the survey to the letter when they sit down at the table. That's completely understandable. They will have to come up with a strategy and prioritize their demands based on many factors besides just the survey. The main influence will obviously be the opponent's position. You never know where they will fight the hardest.
Plus, Wall Street and the other employee groups will be watching. There are lots of ways to bump our compensation besides increasing the pay rates and making headlines with a huge percentage number. Of course we raise the rates, but we also make vacation and training worth 4 hours per day. Raise the reserve guarantee to 80 hours. Change the trip rigs and rotation guarantees. Bring back night pay. Raise per diem. Increase the international over-ride. And on and on.
You can do all of that kind of stuff and Wall Street and the other employee groups don't really count it as a huge "pay raise". They don't understand our contract well enough to realize what happened.
We can increase our bottom line by 50% without raising our pay rates by 50%.
The negotiators will need some flexibility. The survey is a tool. It is not some sort of binding document.
I'd be interested to see what kind of a percentage raise the majority of our pilots think would be acceptable. Also how many pilots participated in the survey.
Like you said it is only a tool, not a concrete position from the pilot group.
09-26-2011 | 10:22 AM
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From: Light Chop
I can see that being true for some of the ranking data, but I'd like to see some of that data published.
I'd be interested to see what kind of a percentage raise the majority of our pilots think would be acceptable. Also how many pilots participated in the survey.
Like you said it is only a tool, not a concrete position from the pilot group.
I'd be interested to see what kind of a percentage raise the majority of our pilots think would be acceptable. Also how many pilots participated in the survey.
Like you said it is only a tool, not a concrete position from the pilot group.
09-26-2011 | 11:04 AM
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