Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-03-2011 | 04:36 PM
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From: DAL 330
The per diem is going to be automatic but I am not sure when it actually starts. If you have training soon check the recent LOAs or post your question on the DALPA training Forum.
Scoop
12-03-2011 | 05:14 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2009
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DCI carrier Mercury?!?!
I know I know.....but the press sucks!
Plane in Kansas City searched for explosives - Yahoo! Finance
Plane in Kansas City searched for explosives - Yahoo! Finance
12-03-2011 | 05:49 PM
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 868
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From: Starboard Side, weekends & holidays.
To make this relevant, I've made one landing in a real MD-88 in 50 days but I am primed and ready for any catastrophe, RTO, OEI, GPWS or windshear event or even a simple go-around thanks to recurrent. 
What's nice is they put the ATL guys in the 90 sim for recurrent, that sim is niiiiice. But I must say the crew resources emailers are fascinating to read.
What's nice is they put the ATL guys in the 90 sim for recurrent, that sim is niiiiice. But I must say the crew resources emailers are fascinating to read.I would agree that the 90 sim is awesome.. when it works. Did CQ last month and day one (D period) took 6 hours with 5 full-scale sim crashes before we called it quits. Funny thing was the DGS guy said' "This used to be the best sim we had until we started using it all the time.". I now have a love/hate relationship with the thing versus the hate/hate relationship I developed with #5 during initial. Progress I suppose.
12-03-2011 | 06:56 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Just to make the math easy, let's say that before Alitalia joins the alliance, Delta has 500 units of flying and AF/KLM have 500 units. Delta is in a production balance of 50%, 500 divided by 1000. Now add Alitalia which has 100 units of flying. Delta now has 500 units of a 1100 point total. Immediately Delta has 45% of the balance, even though they haven't changed anything.
ALPA negotiated that we will now get 50% of the new 1100 point total or 550 units. Clearly, everyone can see that is a win for Delta pilots and everyone can see how the AF/KLM pilots feel a little set back by this. If the totals had gone to 450 and 650 we would be screaming.
Now, how do we get to this balance. Well you can have Alitalia shut down tomorrow and put their pilots out of work, but maybe you can see how Alitalia would not think that is a great idea. You could have AF/KLM shut down operations to the tune of Alitalia's current operation, but maybe you can see how AF/KLM would not like it. You could also have Delta flood the market with new capacity, to the tune of HALF of what Alitalia has today and drive our fares down and lose a lot of money.
Or...........you could give the alliance a time period to let Delta adjust up to the new production balance. Delta would either grow, AF/KLM/AZ would shrink or both. Either way, any rational person would see how Delta having half of a bigger pie is a win for Delta pilots, and most rational people would understand that you can't just move transatlantic capacity around like hotels in Monopoly.
So, we will be below the end state production balance as we slowly adjust to the new environment. We will grow into a higher amount of flying with time. We will then be able to monitor the new, better for Delta pilots production balance on a more rational basis. Does that make sense?
ALPA negotiated that we will now get 50% of the new 1100 point total or 550 units. Clearly, everyone can see that is a win for Delta pilots and everyone can see how the AF/KLM pilots feel a little set back by this. If the totals had gone to 450 and 650 we would be screaming.
Now, how do we get to this balance. Well you can have Alitalia shut down tomorrow and put their pilots out of work, but maybe you can see how Alitalia would not think that is a great idea. You could have AF/KLM shut down operations to the tune of Alitalia's current operation, but maybe you can see how AF/KLM would not like it. You could also have Delta flood the market with new capacity, to the tune of HALF of what Alitalia has today and drive our fares down and lose a lot of money.
Or...........you could give the alliance a time period to let Delta adjust up to the new production balance. Delta would either grow, AF/KLM/AZ would shrink or both. Either way, any rational person would see how Delta having half of a bigger pie is a win for Delta pilots, and most rational people would understand that you can't just move transatlantic capacity around like hotels in Monopoly.
So, we will be below the end state production balance as we slowly adjust to the new environment. We will grow into a higher amount of flying with time. We will then be able to monitor the new, better for Delta pilots production balance on a more rational basis. Does that make sense?
Agree with everything you wrote in a perfect World. But, thus far AF/KLM have been expanding while Delta is pulling capacity. AF/KLM have 76 large widebodies coming, we have none. Many people sense that management is not adhering to the agreement in good faith. 12 months is sufficient time for seasonal flying adjustments. 36 months is too long IMHO.
As you state, these things do not change overnight. If current trends continue, what assurance do we have that another scope concession will not be the fix? How do we know that this fix will not be a surprise MOU, or grievance settlement that we learn about after our bargaining agent has executed the deal?
... and no Carl, the DPA is not the answer. DPA can't be trusted until they back down from the tired justifications for last decade's outsourcing.
12-03-2011 | 07:00 PM
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
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From: 767er Captain
Just to make the math easy, let's say that before Alitalia joins the alliance, Delta has 500 units of flying and AF/KLM have 500 units. Delta is in a production balance of 50%, 500 divided by 1000. Now add Alitalia which has 100 units of flying. Delta now has 500 units of a 1100 point total. Immediately Delta has 45% of the balance, even though they haven't changed anything.
ALPA negotiated that we will now get 50% of the new 1100 point total or 550 units. Clearly, everyone can see that is a win for Delta pilots and everyone can see how the AF/KLM pilots feel a little set back by this. If the totals had gone to 450 and 650 we would be screaming.
Now, how do we get to this balance. Well you can have Alitalia shut down tomorrow and put their pilots out of work, but maybe you can see how Alitalia would not think that is a great idea. You could have AF/KLM shut down operations to the tune of Alitalia's current operation, but maybe you can see how AF/KLM would not like it. You could also have Delta flood the market with new capacity, to the tune of HALF of what Alitalia has today and drive our fares down and lose a lot of money.
Or...........you could give the alliance a time period to let Delta adjust up to the new production balance. Delta would either grow, AF/KLM/AZ would shrink or both. Either way, any rational person would see how Delta having half of a bigger pie is a win for Delta pilots, and most rational people would understand that you can't just move transatlantic capacity around like hotels in Monopoly.
So, we will be below the end state production balance as we slowly adjust to the new environment. We will grow into a higher amount of flying with time. We will then be able to monitor the new, better for Delta pilots production balance on a more rational basis. Does that make sense?
ALPA negotiated that we will now get 50% of the new 1100 point total or 550 units. Clearly, everyone can see that is a win for Delta pilots and everyone can see how the AF/KLM pilots feel a little set back by this. If the totals had gone to 450 and 650 we would be screaming.
Now, how do we get to this balance. Well you can have Alitalia shut down tomorrow and put their pilots out of work, but maybe you can see how Alitalia would not think that is a great idea. You could have AF/KLM shut down operations to the tune of Alitalia's current operation, but maybe you can see how AF/KLM would not like it. You could also have Delta flood the market with new capacity, to the tune of HALF of what Alitalia has today and drive our fares down and lose a lot of money.
Or...........you could give the alliance a time period to let Delta adjust up to the new production balance. Delta would either grow, AF/KLM/AZ would shrink or both. Either way, any rational person would see how Delta having half of a bigger pie is a win for Delta pilots, and most rational people would understand that you can't just move transatlantic capacity around like hotels in Monopoly.
So, we will be below the end state production balance as we slowly adjust to the new environment. We will grow into a higher amount of flying with time. We will then be able to monitor the new, better for Delta pilots production balance on a more rational basis. Does that make sense?
And no matter how you slice it, a 3 year balance timing is too long, especially if it can be reset every other month. Those kinds of things can be tweaked.. shuffled around by these management teams to whipsaw us against one another. No... I really don't like what I am hearing here..
12-03-2011 | 07:14 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
I know I know.....but the press sucks!
Plane in Kansas City searched for explosives - Yahoo! Finance
Plane in Kansas City searched for explosives - Yahoo! Finance
Their life story would make a heck of a movie.
12-03-2011 | 07:16 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
I know I know.....but the press sucks!
Plane in Kansas City searched for explosives - Yahoo! Finance
Plane in Kansas City searched for explosives - Yahoo! Finance
Their life story would make a heck of a movie.
12-03-2011 | 08:01 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,724
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From: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Just to make the math easy, let's say that before Alitalia joins the alliance, Delta has 500 units of flying and AF/KLM have 500 units. Delta is in a production balance of 50%, 500 divided by 1000. Now add Alitalia which has 100 units of flying. Delta now has 500 units of a 1100 point total. Immediately Delta has 45% of the balance, even though they haven't changed anything.
ALPA negotiated that we will now get 50% of the new 1100 point total or 550 units. Clearly, everyone can see that is a win for Delta pilots and everyone can see how the AF/KLM pilots feel a little set back by this. If the totals had gone to 450 and 650 we would be screaming.
Now, how do we get to this balance. Well you can have Alitalia shut down tomorrow and put their pilots out of work, but maybe you can see how Alitalia would not think that is a great idea. You could have AF/KLM shut down operations to the tune of Alitalia's current operation, but maybe you can see how AF/KLM would not like it. You could also have Delta flood the market with new capacity, to the tune of HALF of what Alitalia has today and drive our fares down and lose a lot of money.
Or...........you could give the alliance a time period to let Delta adjust up to the new production balance. Delta would either grow, AF/KLM/AZ would shrink or both. Either way, any rational person would see how Delta having half of a bigger pie is a win for Delta pilots, and most rational people would understand that you can't just move transatlantic capacity around like hotels in Monopoly.
So, we will be below the end state production balance as we slowly adjust to the new environment. We will grow into a higher amount of flying with time. We will then be able to monitor the new, better for Delta pilots production balance on a more rational basis. Does that make sense?
ALPA negotiated that we will now get 50% of the new 1100 point total or 550 units. Clearly, everyone can see that is a win for Delta pilots and everyone can see how the AF/KLM pilots feel a little set back by this. If the totals had gone to 450 and 650 we would be screaming.
Now, how do we get to this balance. Well you can have Alitalia shut down tomorrow and put their pilots out of work, but maybe you can see how Alitalia would not think that is a great idea. You could have AF/KLM shut down operations to the tune of Alitalia's current operation, but maybe you can see how AF/KLM would not like it. You could also have Delta flood the market with new capacity, to the tune of HALF of what Alitalia has today and drive our fares down and lose a lot of money.
Or...........you could give the alliance a time period to let Delta adjust up to the new production balance. Delta would either grow, AF/KLM/AZ would shrink or both. Either way, any rational person would see how Delta having half of a bigger pie is a win for Delta pilots, and most rational people would understand that you can't just move transatlantic capacity around like hotels in Monopoly.
So, we will be below the end state production balance as we slowly adjust to the new environment. We will grow into a higher amount of flying with time. We will then be able to monitor the new, better for Delta pilots production balance on a more rational basis. Does that make sense?
Starting point before Alitalia (LOA16 PWA required percentages):
Delta 51.7%
AFKLM 48.3%
LOA16 adjusted for the Alitalia capacity added to AFKLM (Desi's (RD) numbers)
Delta 47.2%
AFKLM/AZ 52.8%
Delta share is down 4.5% so Alitalia share is 4.5% added to AFKLM
MOU14 signed by TO and SD in June 2010:
Delta 50%
AFKLM/AZ 50%
The gain: 2.8% for Delta, due in 2014
The cost: extend compliance period from March 31, 2011 to March 31, 2014
Translation: no PWA enforcement ability from June 2010 (MOU 14 signed) to March 31, 2014 (end of current rolling three-year compliance period)
What have we "gained" since Alitalia was added:
SEP Delta EASK 45.9% (-1.3% vs pre Alitalia levels, -4.1% down vs 50%)
OCT Delta EASK 46.0% (-1.2% vs pre Alitalia levels, -4% down vs 50%)
NOV Delta EASK 46.0% (-1.2% vs pre Alitalia levels, -4% down vs 50%)
DEC Delta EASK 46.6% (-0.6% vs pre Alitalia levels, -3.4% down vs 50%)
JAN Delta EASK 46.8% (-0.4% vs pre Alitalia levels, -3.2% down vs 50%)
FEB Delta EASK 46.9% (-0.3% vs pre Alitalia levels, -3.1% down vs 50%)
MAR Delta EASK 45.8% (-1.4% vs pre Alitalia levels, -4.2% down vs 50%)
- We are not gaining anything.
- We have actually lost flying over when Alitalia was added.
- We are forcast to remain below 47.2% which is where our share of flying was after AFKLM added Alitalia.
Delta doesn't have any PWA enforcable flying obligation towards Delta pilots until 2014.
- Our flying is less than it was when Alitalia was added
- It is projected to be less than our share when Alitalia was added
- We have no ability to seek changes until 2014
- If Delta chooses to fly 49.75% for 12 months ending on March 31, 2014 all accrued flying deficit will be disregarded and Delta deemed in compliance.
Desi's (RD) own numbers put the potential 2.8% gain by 2014 at 6-7 city-pairs.
We are currently flying well below that gain (really a loss right now).
-9 city-pairs for Delta
-3 city-pairs for AFKLM/AZ
That's where we are at.
We are below our share of the production balance even when adjusted for the addition of Alitalia. We are further away from a 50% share than we were a year ago...And we can't do anything about it until after March 31, 2014.
Those are actual numbers, real data from our DALPA compliance guys sourced though DALPA channels not some made up examples to make you feel good.
This is our reality guys, face it!
Cheers
George
Last edited by georgetg; 12-03-2011 at 08:11 PM.
12-03-2011 | 09:59 PM
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A4A formerly ATA
So here is an excerpt from Deltanet about the A4A on which Richard Anderson is chairman:
"Richard is chairman of the board and was present for the meeting Thursday. A summary of The Case for a U.S. National Airline Policy is available on airlines.org. It is there that the group argues for a comprehensive policy.
Foreign airlines are growing at a significant rate, reinvesting earnings in their product and expanding their global presence at the expense of U.S. airlines, with troubling implications for the entire U.S. economy, the group says."
Seems our beloved CEO is talking out both sides of his mouth!! Maybe he didn't actually say this, but he is the chairman of the board. How can the association with which he is chairman put out something like this while continuing to "code share/JV with foreign airlines?!?!?!!!
"Richard is chairman of the board and was present for the meeting Thursday. A summary of The Case for a U.S. National Airline Policy is available on airlines.org. It is there that the group argues for a comprehensive policy.
Foreign airlines are growing at a significant rate, reinvesting earnings in their product and expanding their global presence at the expense of U.S. airlines, with troubling implications for the entire U.S. economy, the group says."
Seems our beloved CEO is talking out both sides of his mouth!! Maybe he didn't actually say this, but he is the chairman of the board. How can the association with which he is chairman put out something like this while continuing to "code share/JV with foreign airlines?!?!?!!!
12-03-2011 | 11:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,898
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From: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
So here is an excerpt from Deltanet about the A4A on which Richard Anderson is chairman:
"Richard is chairman of the board and was present for the meeting Thursday. A summary of The Case for a U.S. National Airline Policy is available on airlines.org. It is there that the group argues for a comprehensive policy.
Foreign airlines are growing at a significant rate, reinvesting earnings in their product and expanding their global presence at the expense of U.S. airlines, with troubling implications for the entire U.S. economy, the group says."
Seems our beloved CEO is talking out both sides of his mouth!! Maybe he didn't actually say this, but he is the chairman of the board. How can the association with which he is chairman put out something like this while continuing to "code share/JV with foreign airlines?!?!?!!!
"Richard is chairman of the board and was present for the meeting Thursday. A summary of The Case for a U.S. National Airline Policy is available on airlines.org. It is there that the group argues for a comprehensive policy.
Foreign airlines are growing at a significant rate, reinvesting earnings in their product and expanding their global presence at the expense of U.S. airlines, with troubling implications for the entire U.S. economy, the group says."
Seems our beloved CEO is talking out both sides of his mouth!! Maybe he didn't actually say this, but he is the chairman of the board. How can the association with which he is chairman put out something like this while continuing to "code share/JV with foreign airlines?!?!?!!!
Good point, but the A4A's new 'Raison d'ętre' if you will, is to attempt to stop our own government from giving away the store WRT the US air transport industry, and also to attempt to stop our government from developing policies that are detrimental to the home team players.
One would think that such a group would be redundant, after all its OUR government, but considering that Washington has given away virtually everything of value to our economy and completely mismanaged everything else it's been involved with, well, you can see the need.
The A4A is anti labor too, but our government has emerged as by far the biggest threat to our existence...
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