Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
06-12-2009, 08:27 AM
#8261
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
I was hoping that our situation would be different. Short term furlough vs 17 yrs. Guess that was wishful thinking.
06-12-2009, 08:30 AM
#8262
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by FlyinPiker
In the past ACL has talked about a 12 month conversion AE the company can use.
The next AE could easily be a combined one with training dates TBA for those who's new positions would take them across company lines. Those who were staying on their pre-merged side or Compassbound/streetside could then be taken care of immediately.
I would imagine there is pay protection language to take care of training out of senoirity which would probably occur.
The next AE could easily be a combined one with training dates TBA for those who's new positions would take them across company lines. Those who were staying on their pre-merged side or Compassbound/streetside could then be taken care of immediately.
I would imagine there is pay protection language to take care of training out of senoirity which would probably occur.
2. Pre-merger Delta pilots will not be eligible for an AE, VD or MD to categories operating former NWA aircraft until after SOC.
7. Former NWA pilots will not be eligible for an AE, VD or MD to categories operating pre-merger Delta aircraft until after SOC.
This is from the attachment to the JCBA in Section 22 for both sides.
06-12-2009, 08:37 AM
#8263
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
The JCBA specifically prohibits awarding advanced entitlements on each others fleets until after SOC. They can post a bid on the day after SOC but not before.
2. Pre-merger Delta pilots will not be eligible for an AE, VD or MD to categories operating former NWA aircraft until after SOC.
7. Former NWA pilots will not be eligible for an AE, VD or MD to categories operating pre-merger Delta aircraft until after SOC.
This is from the attachment to the JCBA in Section 22 for both sides.
2. Pre-merger Delta pilots will not be eligible for an AE, VD or MD to categories operating former NWA aircraft until after SOC.
7. Former NWA pilots will not be eligible for an AE, VD or MD to categories operating pre-merger Delta aircraft until after SOC.
This is from the attachment to the JCBA in Section 22 for both sides.
What is going on with this? I know you know something.
06-12-2009, 08:52 AM
#8264
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
This board is not working well - duplicate post.
06-12-2009, 08:54 AM
#8265
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
Satchip - they (we?) would be considered Furloughed and Off the Property.
In the US Air Merger the Us Air pilots who had accepted flow down to Mid Atlantic were not even considered US Air pilots during the integration. The Mid Atlantic flow down guys were subsequently stapled below the most junior America West new hire even though the dates of hire were wildly different.
If a Delta pilot flowed off property, he would be stapled below the most junior (active?) pilot on the other side's seniority list, based on historical precedent. Our flow down was modeled on US Air's so it likely would work in a similar fashion for those affected.
We are a lot better off if we were "Delta" pilots. A furloughed Delta pilot at Compass is pretty much in the same position as a Compass pilot who is waiting to flow.
Remember - in seniority integration, or unionism, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR UNITY. Separate lists and flow throughs do not help Delta pilots as much as being on THE ACTIVE SENIORITY LIST. Other considerations include the fact that getting in trouble at Compass (which is easier at the Regionals) could cost you your Delta job.
In the US Air Merger the Us Air pilots who had accepted flow down to Mid Atlantic were not even considered US Air pilots during the integration. The Mid Atlantic flow down guys were subsequently stapled below the most junior America West new hire even though the dates of hire were wildly different.
If a Delta pilot flowed off property, he would be stapled below the most junior (active?) pilot on the other side's seniority list, based on historical precedent. Our flow down was modeled on US Air's so it likely would work in a similar fashion for those affected.
We are a lot better off if we were "Delta" pilots. A furloughed Delta pilot at Compass is pretty much in the same position as a Compass pilot who is waiting to flow.
Remember - in seniority integration, or unionism, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR UNITY. Separate lists and flow throughs do not help Delta pilots as much as being on THE ACTIVE SENIORITY LIST. Other considerations include the fact that getting in trouble at Compass (which is easier at the Regionals) could cost you your Delta job.
06-12-2009, 09:09 AM
#8266
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
TRUE. Add CPZ workrules to the buzz kill which they've said leave a lot to be desired.
But let me rephrase because I posted in haste, it looks like a lot of fun to fly that jet. It'd be a heck of a lot more fun to go to work if CPZ was mainline, mainline rates, mainline rules, everyone is happy and nobody was knocked out of their seats.
But let me rephrase because I posted in haste, it looks like a lot of fun to fly that jet. It'd be a heck of a lot more fun to go to work if CPZ was mainline, mainline rates, mainline rules, everyone is happy and nobody was knocked out of their seats.
It will be MUCH harder for scope sellers in "voting roles" to argue the away the integration attempts when the people they are turning away from actually ARE REAL DELTA PILOTS!!!!
(Not if CPS is sold then that would change the dynamic, but not the goal.)
KLM had THREE different pilot groups on three different contracts(KLM, CityHopper, and KLM Cargo). Using a long-term approach, the KLM Pilot Union negotiated the combination of ALL of these pilots and separate contracts over a span of three contract negotiation cycles. It was step by step, starting with matching work rules between the three, then coordinating pay, then finally working to merge the pilots together. (or some order like that, its been a long time since I spoke with the union leader who filled me in on the process.)
It can be done, and it cannot happen quickly or overnight. There must be foresight and commitment to a long term goal for everyone to benefit, including the most senior to the most junior.
06-12-2009, 09:12 AM
#8267
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 767-400
Posts: 797
CPO ATL chatting... 450+ over for the spring 2010. However working with ALPA for "creative options" to not furlough. (3 month SILS, ALV adjustments, etc.) DAL wants to be postioned to jumps quickly if the econ turns (not likely), OR someone else no longer plays... FWIW
06-12-2009, 09:13 AM
#8268
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
That is key. We need to commitment from all parties. I do not think we have that yet!
06-12-2009, 09:14 AM
#8269
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by BigGuns
CPO ATL chatting... 450+ over for the spring 2010. However working with ALPA for "creative options" to not furlough. (3 month SILS, ALV adjustments, etc.) DAL wants to be postioned to jumps quickly if the econ turns (not likely), OR someone else no longer plays... FWIW
I hope they can find a way, but this is just too many bodies sitting around. Now if we got all of those 76 seat jets here, we would need to hire!
There are a few thing that we do have going for us. All of them surround money.
1) We are not making what we did in 01 so the carrying costs are a lot less
2) Our insurance sucks, so the carrying costs are a lot less
3) We have a lot of tools to lower our pay without a LOA.
Even with this I think we are still costing a lot.
DAL could jump quickly be still being overstaffed by 200-300 and then recalling the rest. That is what has me worried.
06-12-2009, 09:24 AM
#8270
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
That would be the set up for we tried all we could.
I hope they can find a way, but this is just too many bodies sitting around. Now if we got all of those 76 seat jets here, we would need to hire!
There are a few thing that we do have going for us. All of them surround money.
1) We are not making what we did in 01 so the carrying costs are a lot less
2) Our insurance sucks, so the carrying costs are a lot less
3) We have a lot of tools to lower our pay without a LOA.
Even with this I think we are still costing a lot.
DAL could jump quickly be still being overstaffed by 200-300 and then recalling the rest. That is what has me worried.
I hope they can find a way, but this is just too many bodies sitting around. Now if we got all of those 76 seat jets here, we would need to hire!
There are a few thing that we do have going for us. All of them surround money.
1) We are not making what we did in 01 so the carrying costs are a lot less
2) Our insurance sucks, so the carrying costs are a lot less
3) We have a lot of tools to lower our pay without a LOA.
Even with this I think we are still costing a lot.
DAL could jump quickly be still being overstaffed by 200-300 and then recalling the rest. That is what has me worried.
Just curious what you feel the worst case scenario is. I realize there are so many variables, but I just dont see more then 500 furloughs. Is that way off in your opinion? Do you think more? I know you threw 150 out there, and that doesn't seem that bad to me at all. That could all be covered by Compass.
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