Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-14-2011 | 01:51 PM
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12-14-2011 | 01:53 PM
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From: Urban chicken rancher.
12-14-2011 | 01:55 PM
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12-14-2011 | 01:55 PM
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From: right for a long, long time
Yeah 10% won't even cover 2 years of run of the mill inflation. Of course while getting our pay up significantly is very important, other things like scope are even more important. But most airline execs would rather offer eye candy raise percentages in order to keep extremely liberal scope clauses status quo...or maybe even worsen them.
If RA wants a quick deal with a 2-3 year extension that's fine as long as it is a massive, earth shattering victory in the scope department. Anything less than that isn't worth resetting the NMB clock. But what does he value more...Delta pilots doing Delta flying, or outsourcing by any means necessary, even to a direct fare and yield trashing competitor?
Scope trumps pay because scope is the foundation for pay. And retirement, vacation, work rules, per diem, iPads, kittens, underboob and even our seniority list itself and everyone's relative place on it no matter how senior or junior.
Want a quick deal? OK, fix scope. 76 seaters gone next week. 6 seats pulled immediately. 51-70 seaters sharply reduced in 1-2 years and no additional CPA can be made or extended with all gone in 5-6 years even if the company has to eat the leases (which contrary to the mythological hype is the vast majority of the penalty for the company for early termination anyway...and we pay 100% of the leases in the first place). The AK code share brought back to its original intentions and every quarter our status reps can veto any single code share flight and force its exclusion from the program. Bye Bye 10+ flights a day LA-SEA with zero on Delta metal. Change the AF/KLM 49.75/0/0 to 50.25/49.5/49/5, we get 100% US-Brazil with GOL and can veto any code share flight between cities we serve anyway if we feel its being abused to get around our metal, and we get at least one additional flight from V-Austrailia. They can add a hundred current and future Chinese airlines to the code share mix but we get our current ratio or greater US-China. If Virgin-Atlantic is brought into the mix, they get rolled into the seat kilometers AF-KLM does and we can sort it out then.
If RA wants a quick deal with a 2-3 year extension that's fine as long as it is a massive, earth shattering victory in the scope department. Anything less than that isn't worth resetting the NMB clock. But what does he value more...Delta pilots doing Delta flying, or outsourcing by any means necessary, even to a direct fare and yield trashing competitor?
Scope trumps pay because scope is the foundation for pay. And retirement, vacation, work rules, per diem, iPads, kittens, underboob and even our seniority list itself and everyone's relative place on it no matter how senior or junior.
Want a quick deal? OK, fix scope. 76 seaters gone next week. 6 seats pulled immediately. 51-70 seaters sharply reduced in 1-2 years and no additional CPA can be made or extended with all gone in 5-6 years even if the company has to eat the leases (which contrary to the mythological hype is the vast majority of the penalty for the company for early termination anyway...and we pay 100% of the leases in the first place). The AK code share brought back to its original intentions and every quarter our status reps can veto any single code share flight and force its exclusion from the program. Bye Bye 10+ flights a day LA-SEA with zero on Delta metal. Change the AF/KLM 49.75/0/0 to 50.25/49.5/49/5, we get 100% US-Brazil with GOL and can veto any code share flight between cities we serve anyway if we feel its being abused to get around our metal, and we get at least one additional flight from V-Austrailia. They can add a hundred current and future Chinese airlines to the code share mix but we get our current ratio or greater US-China. If Virgin-Atlantic is brought into the mix, they get rolled into the seat kilometers AF-KLM does and we can sort it out then.
I completely concur that we need some scope protections, it needs to be addressed considering what the future is shaping up to be.
I have been thinking about this possible scenario and have come up with my conditions for an extension. (and yes I have contacted my rep and informed him of my position/thoughts).
1. Extension of 18 months max.
2. MOU/LOA/NMB recognized letter with the company that binds them to production balances in all future codeshare/JV agreements, and to phase them into all current agreements.
3. Pay rate increases of 10% at beginning.
4. 5% increase to rates 12 months later.
5. Significantly increased profit sharing percentage for pilots(at least double).
6. DC increase of 1%
7. Increase Vacation pay to 5:15. (=1.5% annual pay increase per week)
8. Openers exchanged at the 12 month point, and NMB assisted negotiations immediately at the 18 month point.
9. A 5% retro payment and 5% pay rate bump going forward if the reason for the desired extension fails to materialize/deal falls through.
Essentially it boils down to a day one increase of 10% pay + 4% PS + 4.5% Vac. pay + 1% DC = 19.5% on day one.
Reworks and enhances "network scope" over time, but lets the company still undertake new opportunities.
At the one year point nets an additional 5%, and starts the negotiations.
We enter NMB negotiations with 26% higher compensation than if we had been frozen in negotiations for 1.5 years without a new deal, company gets to advertise stability to get a deal done, but protects the pilots with an ADDITIONAL 5% if the company just wanted to "stall"(for a 31% increase at 12 months plus one day).
Every 1% the pilots compensation increases costs approx. $21 Million if this board has accurate info..... That translates to a $409 mill. year 1 and $535 mil year 2 in pre-tax cost increases.
The US corp. tax rate is 35% so the company will write off 1/3 of the costs. Net cost for DAL Inc. to pay for the extension is $265 mil. in year 1 and $348 mil in year 2. TOTAL $613 mil. net cost.
According to alfa, DAL spent $229 mil in the 3Q 2011 on 12.5B debt.
That equates to roughly $900 mil in 2011. Debt will be cut by $2.5B over the next 1.5 years, so roughly $415 million in principal reduction and $180-200 million in interest ≈ $600 million EACH QUARTER.
So, to give the DAL pilots a 18 month "extension" it will cost DAL Inc. $30 mil./mo. (or one quarters' worth of debt payment out of 6 quarters.) They owe a debt to the pilots, time to start paying. I can be flexible and work with the company, like any other creditor, as long as they make an earnest effort too.
This is MY opinion, feel free to craft one of your own.
Last edited by shiznit; 12-14-2011 at 02:18 PM.
12-14-2011 | 01:56 PM
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From: Urban chicken rancher.
I'm constantly amazed by how much mileage Delta gets just through talk. "We are a world class airline..." blah, blah, blah. And even more amazed by how many of us start believing it after we've heard it enough. Actions speak louder than words. I can't figure out where Delta is the "industry leader" in anything (other than pilot skill, of course). Not in pay (other than the CEO), not in customer service, and certainly not in IT.
So when some guy in 15C has more actionable, real-time weather information than I do, and Bubba the Dispatcher can't be bothered to look up from his 1980s NASCAR reruns to answer my request for weather info, it's a bit ridiculous. We've had the capabillity to get real-time data up front for a couple of years, but we're still lagging.
I'd just like to see Mama D put its money where its mouth is and get out in front on something...anything. As far as I can tell, I'm not sure how Delta is in any position to lure top-quality pilots in the next boom with a complete inability to lead the industry.
So when some guy in 15C has more actionable, real-time weather information than I do, and Bubba the Dispatcher can't be bothered to look up from his 1980s NASCAR reruns to answer my request for weather info, it's a bit ridiculous. We've had the capabillity to get real-time data up front for a couple of years, but we're still lagging.
I'd just like to see Mama D put its money where its mouth is and get out in front on something...anything. As far as I can tell, I'm not sure how Delta is in any position to lure top-quality pilots in the next boom with a complete inability to lead the industry.
12-14-2011 | 02:00 PM
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That isn't an "extension" though. That is a rework on a massive scale, with tremendous cost. No incentive for the company to even entertain it. The purpose of an extension is to keep the working environment stable to undertake an event such as a major acquisition or merger. If RA & Co. want to "buy some peace", it's just a matter of what the Co. will be willing pay!
I completely concur that we need some scope protections, it needs to be addressed considering what the future is shaping up to be.
I have been thinking about this possible scenario and have come up with my conditions for an extension. (and yes I have contacted my rep and informed him of my position/thoughts).
1. Extension of 18 months max.
2. MOU/LOA/NMB recognized letter with the company that binds them to production balances in all future codeshare/JV agreements, and to phase them into all current agreements.
3. Pay rate increases of 10% at beginning.
4. 5% increase to rates 12 months later.
5. Significantly increased profit sharing percentage for pilots(at least double).
6. DC increase of 1%
7. Increase Vacation pay to 5:15. (=1.5% annual pay increase per week)
8. Openers exchanged at the 12 month point, and NMB assisted negotiations immediately at the 18 month point.
9. A 5% retro payment and 5% pay rate bump going forward if the reason for the desired extension fails to materialize/deal falls through.
Essentially it boils down to a day one increase of 10% pay + 4% PS + 4.5% Vac. pay + 1% DC = 19.5% on day one.
Reworks and enhances "network scope" over time, but lets the company still undertake new opportunities.
At the one year point nets an additional 5%, and starts the negotiations.
We enter NMB negotiations with 26% higher compensation than if we had been frozen in negotiations for 1.5 years without a new deal, company gets to advertise stability to get a deal done, but protects the pilots with an ADDITIONAL 5% if the company just wanted to "stall"(for a 31% increase at 12 months plus one day).
Every 1% the pilots compensation increases costs approx. $18 Million if this board has accurate info..... That translates to a $351 mill. year 1 and $481 mil year 2 in pre-tax cost increases.
The US corp. tax rate is 35% so the company will write off 1/3 of the costs. Net cost for DAL Inc. to pay for the extension is $228.2 mil. in year 1 and $312.7 mil in year 2. TOTAL $541 mil. net cost.
According to alfa, DAL spent $229 mil in the 3Q 2011 on 12.5B debt.
That equates to roughly $900 mil in 2011. Debt will be cut by $2.5B over the next 1.5 years, so roughly $415 million in principal reduction and $180-200 million in interest ≈ $600 million EACH QUARTER.
So, to give the DAL pilots a 18 month "extension" it will cost DAL Inc. $30 mil./mo. (or one quarters' worth of debt payment out of 6 quarters.) They owe a debt to the pilots, time to start paying. I can be flexible and work with the company, like any other creditor, as long as they make an earnest effort too.
This is MY opinion, feel free to craft one of your own.
I completely concur that we need some scope protections, it needs to be addressed considering what the future is shaping up to be.
I have been thinking about this possible scenario and have come up with my conditions for an extension. (and yes I have contacted my rep and informed him of my position/thoughts).
1. Extension of 18 months max.
2. MOU/LOA/NMB recognized letter with the company that binds them to production balances in all future codeshare/JV agreements, and to phase them into all current agreements.
3. Pay rate increases of 10% at beginning.
4. 5% increase to rates 12 months later.
5. Significantly increased profit sharing percentage for pilots(at least double).
6. DC increase of 1%
7. Increase Vacation pay to 5:15. (=1.5% annual pay increase per week)
8. Openers exchanged at the 12 month point, and NMB assisted negotiations immediately at the 18 month point.
9. A 5% retro payment and 5% pay rate bump going forward if the reason for the desired extension fails to materialize/deal falls through.
Essentially it boils down to a day one increase of 10% pay + 4% PS + 4.5% Vac. pay + 1% DC = 19.5% on day one.
Reworks and enhances "network scope" over time, but lets the company still undertake new opportunities.
At the one year point nets an additional 5%, and starts the negotiations.
We enter NMB negotiations with 26% higher compensation than if we had been frozen in negotiations for 1.5 years without a new deal, company gets to advertise stability to get a deal done, but protects the pilots with an ADDITIONAL 5% if the company just wanted to "stall"(for a 31% increase at 12 months plus one day).
Every 1% the pilots compensation increases costs approx. $18 Million if this board has accurate info..... That translates to a $351 mill. year 1 and $481 mil year 2 in pre-tax cost increases.
The US corp. tax rate is 35% so the company will write off 1/3 of the costs. Net cost for DAL Inc. to pay for the extension is $228.2 mil. in year 1 and $312.7 mil in year 2. TOTAL $541 mil. net cost.
According to alfa, DAL spent $229 mil in the 3Q 2011 on 12.5B debt.
That equates to roughly $900 mil in 2011. Debt will be cut by $2.5B over the next 1.5 years, so roughly $415 million in principal reduction and $180-200 million in interest ≈ $600 million EACH QUARTER.
So, to give the DAL pilots a 18 month "extension" it will cost DAL Inc. $30 mil./mo. (or one quarters' worth of debt payment out of 6 quarters.) They owe a debt to the pilots, time to start paying. I can be flexible and work with the company, like any other creditor, as long as they make an earnest effort too.
This is MY opinion, feel free to craft one of your own.
12-14-2011 | 02:03 PM
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12-14-2011 | 02:04 PM
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12-14-2011 | 02:10 PM
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12-14-2011 | 02:14 PM
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From: right for a long, long time
It would be terms for an extension, NOT a Section 6.
Leaving the work rules alone is a part of how an extension provides stability and why the company would offer it in lieu of a full rewrite.
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