Quite some spin. What became Compass was a creation of the NWA MEC which wrote that it received credits for these scope changes.

"Arbitrage" is a good term to describe ALPA's act of partnering with management to cross collateralize one pilots pay by selling his junior member's job.

Exactly. That is why this apparent change in the 2012 - 2013 game plan is significant. If Delta is further consolidating and not planning to hire it is a very clear signal the longevity of Delta pilots is perceived as a problem by Delta management. A problem they fix by outsourcing. Again, I'd like Sailing or Slow's comment on:


Delta's management of DCI could best be described as creative destruction. Airline route systems are constantly on the move, uprooting pilots and their families. Jets too, move from ASA to Comair to SkyWest then ASA to GoJets creating constant advancements and displacements throughout the system. This whipsaw is specifically designed to destroy longevity. At ASA, Delta's manager told pilots the goal was to get pilots to move on within 5 years.

Delta mainline has believed they are are immune. If we're making a 2 Billion profit in 2012 while displacing pilots ... we are not immune. We are a part of the same organization that has managed Comair's flying.

Even more so when you compare their advancement to our (what is it now, 4 or 5 bids) which have seen junior members displaced. That's what looks most bleak at the moment.

Delta has a very rich history of being an excellent employer. Delta likes to recall those romantic notions about itself. Today I again heard Richard Anderson's recorded message about sitting at the desk of C.E. Woolman. That resonates with long time Delta people, like my family. The reality is that CE Wollman would not approve of Delta's outsourcing. He had pride in doing this job better and believed only Delta employees could do it best.

Slow, those are some good ideas. I agree it's not a simple fix and we do have to ensure we don't remedy one situation while creating another pitfall.

I also realize there is a need for some form of codeshare flying, but i'd like to see a consistent method for indexing the codeshare flying (including DCI) to the level of flying Delta performs. Production balance, block hours, departures, capacity, number of Delta pilots...Some way of flexing the codeshare down when Delta mainline shrinks and a reasonable way to permit flexing up should mainline grow.

Our JV language use to only address growth and was wisely modified to take contraction into consideration. My beef is only with the one-time opening of the compliance window from 1 year to three...as far as I'm concerned a one year compliance window and a spelled out remedy process is the best way to ensure contractual limits are met.

Cheers
George

Hear hear! Such a wasted opportunity. To watch guys like Slowplay (who I do personally believe is paid to post here as an expectation manager) list multitudes of reasons it is unlikely or improbably or impractical to get small jets flown by mainline Delta pilots it makes one recall many other like minded naysayers across the centuries.

This problem (bringing all flying back to Delta mainline) is solvable and can be done. Certainly it wont be done with small, fearful, ignorant or greedy persons (only in for themselves). Let's take a trip down memory lane and look at some of the naysayers and (thank goodness) "dreamers" who have gone before us. Who would you lump the likes of SP and his "brethren" with?

"Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if not utterly impossible."

— widely attributed to Simon Newcomb, 1902, but with no source information.

The flying machine which will really fly might be evolved by the combined and continuous efforts of mathematicians and mechanicians in from one million to ten million years—provided, of course, we can meanwhile eliminate such little drawbacks and embarrassments as the existing relation between weight and strength in inorganic materials. No doubt the problem has attractions for those it interests, but to the ordinary man it would seem as if effort might be employed more profitably.

— 'Flying Machines Which Do Not Fly,' published in the New York Times, 9 October 1903. Full PDF online. The exact date is unfortunate for the Times, as on 9 October 1903 one Orville Wright wrote in his diary: "We started assembly today."

"The popular mind often pictures gigantic flying machines speeding across the Atlantic, carrying innumerable passengers. It seems safe to say that such ideas must be wholly visionary. Even if such a machine could get across with one or two passengers, it would be prohibitive to any but the capitalist who could own his own yacht."

— William Pickering, Harvard astronomer, 1910.


"Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value."

— Marshal Ferdinand Foch, professor of strategy, Ecole Superiure de Guerre, 1911.


"The aeroplane is an invention of the devil and will never play any part in such a serious business as the defence of the nation, my boy!"

— Sir Sam Hughes, Canadian Minister of Militia and Defence, to J.A.D. McCurdy, who had approached the minister with the idea of starting an air service, August 1914


"It is highly unlikely that an airplane, or fleet of them, could ever sink a fleet of Navy vessels under battle conditions."

— Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1922.


"This fellow [Charles Lindbergh] will never make it. He's doomed."

— Harry Guggenheim, after studying The Spirit of St. Louis at Curtiss Field, 1927.


"The whole procedure [of shooting rockets into space] . . . presents difficulties of so fundamental a nature, that we are forced to dismiss the notion as essentially impracticable, in spite of the author's insistent appeal to put aside prejudice and to recollect the supposed impossibility of heavier-than-air flight before it was actually accomplished. An analogy such as this may be misleading, and we believe it to be so in this case."

— Sir Richard van der Riet Wooley, British astronomer, reviewing P.E. Cleator's 'Rockets Through Space,' in Nature, 14 March 1936


"The acceleration which must result from the use of rockets . . . inevitably would damage the brain beyond repair."

— John P. Lockhard-Mummery, MA, BC, FRCS, 'After Us,' 1936.


"The concept is interesting and well-formed, but in order to earn better than a "C," the idea must be feasible."

— A Yale University management professor in response to Fred Smith's paper proposing reliable overnight delivery service. Fred Smith later started FedEx. 1965.


"If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong."

— Arthur C. Clarke, in the 'New Yorker' magazine, 9 August 1969.



"I am intending to start out in a few days for a trip to the coast of North Carolina . . . for the purpose of making some experiments with a flying machine. It is my belief that flight is possible, and while I am taking up the investigation for pleasure rather than profit, I think there is a slight possibility of achieving fame and fortune from it."

— Wilbur Wright, 1900.


I hear you say "Why?" Always "Why?" You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?"

-George Bernard Shaw

You'd better get informed -- see 80ktsclamp's post a couple after yours.

My apologies to you and the thread. I completely misread your post.

Really? You can't make that better compensation if you are not flying for DAL because we have outsourced it to someone else or are stuck most of your career in the right seat.

I suppose if you are already in as high a seat as you are going to go all you care about is the compensation.

Sadly many F/O's are already there. Even more sadly in a merger or acquisition the growth that we have fueled at other carriers could take another bite out of your career progression in an SLI.

New York

New York’s Smallest Planes Dwindle as Delta Hub Ousts Turboprops

By Mary Jane Credeur - Feb 14, 2012 12:01 AM ET

New York’s smallest passenger planes are poised to fade away as Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) builds a domestic hub at LaGuardia Airport served chiefly by bigger jets.
US Airways Group Inc. (LCC), the region’s largest operator of aircraft like the 37-seat Dash-8 turboprop, is paring commuter flights to upstate cities such as Albany and Syracuse while pulling back in New York. Filling the gap is Delta, which is focused on larger jets -- and no turboprops.
Once vital to carriers serving thinly populated markets, airliners that carry only a few dozen fliers now are seen by management and travelers in a harsher light: Too costly with fuel almost doubling since 2007, too small for amenities such as first-class cabins, and too loud and cramped.
“The jets are more comfortable, more reliable, cleaner, quieter,” said Doug Pinckney, 47, who is president of advertising firm Pinckney Hugo Group in Syracuse and flies to LaGuardia every two to three weeks. “It’s a better airplane. I can’t wait for the switch.”
Delta is using landing rights from a trade with US Airways to expand daily LaGuardia departures by 75 percent, to 264, by July. The world’s second-biggest airline will control half of all LaGuardia flights by then, according to data compiled by OAG, a unit of UBM Aviation in Bedfordshire, England.
More than three-quarters of the flights will be on jets with at least 70 seats. Planes in that category, such as larger models of Bombardier Inc. (BBD/B)’s CRJ series, will have a business- class cabin, a few rows of coach seats with extra legroom, and Wi-Fi, said Gail Grimmett, Delta’s vice president for New York.
‘Very Powerful’
“The ability to go to New York corporate travelers and say ‘We have all-jet service’ is very powerful,” said Henry Harteveldt, an airline analyst at Atmosphere Research Group LLC in San Francisco. “Delta’s offering will be quite compelling.”
Delta’s mainline jets on LaGuardia routes include Airbus SAS (EAD) A319s and Boeing Co. (BA) MD-80s. US Airways’s plan to shrink at LaGuardia by about two-thirds to 65 daily departures while keeping jet shuttle flights to Washington and Boston means that many of the Dash-8s in New York will go elsewhere, though a spokesman, Todd Lehmacher, declined to give a number.
US Airways subsidiaries were flying 44 Dash-8s as of December 2010, or almost half the carrier’s regional planes, according to the latest annual report. The airline received landing rights at Washington’s Reagan National from Delta in exchange for more LaGuardia access, giving Tempe, Arizona-based US Airways a chance to cut money-losing New York flights to and from small cities.
Dropping Albany
“A few turboprops” will remain at LaGuardia to serve cities such as Philadelphia, Lehmacher said. Nonstop routes to Syracuse and Albany are among those getting the ax, based on schedule data. Most of the planes being pulled from New York will go to Washington or Charlotte, North Carolina, Lehmacher said.
“The Dash-8 has been a workhorse for us,” he said. “It’s a remarkable plane and really allows us to serve a lot of markets that we couldn’t profitably serve with other aircraft.”
Pinckney, the advertising executive, is looking forward to larger planes after taking US Airways Dash-8s to LaGuardia to meet clients. The planes originally were made by de Havilland, now a part of Bombardier.
“Turboprops are very noisy,” Pinckney said. “It’s hard to work on them and if you get stuck back in the corner you feel really boxed in.”
U.S. airlines’ turboprop fleet has tumbled 67 percent to 416 planes since the start of the last decade, while 70-seat jets surged 21-fold to 433, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The smallest regional jets, those with 50 or fewer seats, have declined 18 percent from a 2005 peak of 1,356.
‘Largely Replaced’
“Turboprops have been waning since at least 2000 and were largely replaced by the 50-seat jet,” said George Ferguson, senior aerospace analyst for Bloomberg Industries. “Then 50- seat jets grew until the increased cost of fuel stopped the growth.”
The small-airliner fleet in New York includes a half-dozen turboprops flown by Pinnacle Airlines Corp. (PNCL)’s Colgan Air unit for United Continental Holdings Inc. (UAL), which has a domestic and international hub at Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey. At New York’s John F. Kennedy International Airport, AMR Corp (AAMRQ).’s American Eagle flies 44- and 50-seat Embraer SA (EMBR3) jets, and 37-seat Embraers at LaGuardia.
The decline of 50-seaters may quicken with AMR in bankruptcy. Michael Boyd, president of consultant Boyd Group International Inc., predicts that Eagle will dump all its jets with 50 or fewer seats, which make up 70 percent of the regional unit’s 284-plane fleet. Eagle hasn’t detailed its plans.
Fuel, Age
“In the end, fuel consumption and aging aircraft will hurt the 50-seater market,” Tim Hoyland, a partner in the aviation practice at consultant Oliver Wyman, said by e-mail.
Delta is culling half the fleet of its Comair regional unit by year’s end, including 53 of its oldest planes such as 50-seat Bombardier CRJs. The carrier already got rid of the last of its 34-seat Saab 340 turboprops at the end of 2011.
Using bigger jets at LaGuardia will let Delta fly longer routes with more passengers, part of the airline’s strategy to grow in New York after its 2007 bankruptcy exit. For Eric Mower, chairman of advertising agency Eric Mower & Associates in Syracuse, a Delta hub at LaGuardia will mean bypassing connections he now makes in cities such as Atlanta.
“I can go to New York for meetings, and then fly Delta to other cities,” said Mower, 67, whose firm’s clients include Georgia-Pacific LLC (GP)’s Dixie products and Fisher-Price. “That’s a big improvement.”
Delta Markets
Delta’s new nonstop flights from LaGuardia include business markets such as Dallas, Cleveland and Milwaukee. The Atlanta- based carrier is spending $140 million to renovate the majority of the US Airways terminal at LaGuardia that it will control, and link the facility with the adjacent one it already operates.
Some short-haul flights will be shifted to LaGuardia from Delta’s international hub at Kennedy, making way for new connections to airports such as Austin, Texas, that will feed overseas routes, the airline’s Grimmett said.
Jeff Terhune, president of Warren & Panzer Engineers PC in Manhattan, is ready for bigger planes at LaGuardia. He commutes weekly from Syracuse and expects to switch almost exclusively to Delta after splitting flights between US Airways turboprops and larger JetBlue Airways Corp. (JBLU) jets at more-distant Kennedy.
“Flying into LaGuardia is going to save me a couple hours a week, every week, and to me that’s a big deal,” said Terhune, 45, who has been making the trip for 10 years. “With the turboprops, they’re so cramped that you’re kind of stranded there for the flight. You can’t work, you can’t really read, and don’t even bother to pull out the laptop.”

Strange that you can take the time to research and quote so many people and write so many words, yet either completely misunderstand or intentionally misrepresent what was written to generate your response. Which is it, lack of integrity or intelligence?

Nor will it be done by keyboard warriors such as yourself (are you small, fearful, ignorant or greedy?:rolleyes:).

It requires people who actally do things.

JackBauer of 24 Hours knew that.