Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1134599)

Yep. Another one of my friends there went to the 380 so he could escape jr capt on the 330 after less than four years mind you. He will be a 380 Capt in two years when his lock is up.

Many of my friends over at EK and other places ran the numbers to come back to a Legacy job. Sadly, it does not compare. They all opted to stay put and are looking at 20+ years there.

I started looking at their package versus ours and a first year FO with tax incentives, housing allowance, education allowance, profit sharing, and medical is looking at a job that would have to pay north of 200K here in the states to come close.
-7900 a month income w/flight pay:tax free
-3900 housing allowance
-About a 1000 dollar a month education allowance.
-All utilities except internet paid for
-about 2000 a month in profit sharing
-42 days of vacation a year
-Annual leave PS ticket for you and your family anywhere EK flies
-15% in to a retirement fund.

That equates to 14800 a month all tax free.

Only thing taxed is income about the 86K limit(After individual EIC deductions), which FO's do not hit and Capt's pay about 1000 a month to Uncle Sam.

It is an impressive package. Of course there are not unions, and the company determines what, when and where you fly. Living in Dubai is also a must. They also wanted to point out that they flew 85 hrs a month, which I laughed at since that is the norm for a line holder here too.


There are many contracts all over the world that pay above 12K a month. A quick internet search shows you they are plentiful.


Point is, this is what our competition is paying their pilots. The total package is impressive and if DAL does not want to see a bunch of guys that are in the dead zone and junior start looking/taking these gigs, they will need to pay significantly more, have organic growth, and provide career progression that is more than just retirements.


I know a few guys that would look at this stuff if they were offered three to five year leaves. (Again, sadly since we should be the pinnacle of the career)

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1134602)

Me too. We need a nice Fat Raise, a logical pay scale, and ANY airplane order to cheer us up! :D

Originally Posted by JungleBus (Post 1134563)

I see we're talking outsourcing again so I'll add a little fuel to the fire. Overworked DC9 and MD80 guys, here's my current trip that could be yours, if only the E175 "RJ" was flown in-house.

Day 1: MSP-MDW-MSP-BZN. 15 hour overnight in Bozeman eating free hotwings and drinking $3 Moose Drool.
Day 2: BZN-SLC-SNA. Done by 9:30am, 20 hour overnight in sunny Orange County CA.
Day 3: SNA-SLC-YVR. In by 1pm, 17 hours in Vancouver BC hanging out at the Flying Beaver.
Day 4: YVR-MSP-ORD-MSP. Back in time for most commuters to catch their ride home. That 1200nm leg from YVR to MSP is sure "regional," eh?

But hey, DALPA has no interest in recapturing this flying. Really, what mainline pilot would want to lower themselves to this??

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1134638)

There are a few guys here that are looking at ten years to a left seat saying the same thing.

In all fairness training is old school and you are clearly the hired help, but at least the have a driver pick you up for work. :D

Originally Posted by RockyBoy (Post 1134678)

They couldn't pay me enough to live in Dubai. I'd rather live in the U.S. and work for minimum wage at a Taco Bell than live in Dubai.

Originally Posted by slowplay (Post 1134723)

Strange that you can take the time to research and quote so many people and write so many words, yet either completely misunderstand or intentionally misrepresent what was written to generate your response. Which is it, lack of integrity or intelligence?



Nor will it be done by keyboard warriors such as yourself (are you small, fearful, ignorant or greedy?:rolleyes:).

It requires people who actally do things.

JackBauer of 24 Hours knew that.

Originally Posted by Whidbey (Post 1134690)

At least two from my new hire class (2010) have already left and several more are actively interviewing elsewhere.

There is an incredible pay disparity between what we are paid and what our brothers at SWA and FedEx are paid. It's been interesting to watch so many on APC be unwilling to accept that.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1134599)

Yep. Another one of my friends there went to the 380 so he could escape jr capt on the 330 after less than four years mind you. He will be a 380 Capt in two years when his lock is up.

Many of my friends over at EK and other places ran the numbers to come back to a Legacy job. Sadly, it does not compare. They all opted to stay put and are looking at 20+ years there.

I started looking at their package versus ours and a first year FO with tax incentives, housing allowance, education allowance, profit sharing, and medical is looking at a job that would have to pay north of 200K here in the states to come close.
-7900 a month income w/flight pay:tax free
-3900 housing allowance
-About a 1000 dollar a month education allowance.
-All utilities except internet paid for
-about 2000 a month in profit sharing
-42 days of vacation a year
-Annual leave PS ticket for you and your family anywhere EK flies
-15% in to a retirement fund.

That equates to 14800 a month all tax free.

Only thing taxed is income about the 86K limit(After individual EIC deductions), which FO's do not hit and Capt's pay about 1000 a month to Uncle Sam.

It is an impressive package. Of course there are not unions, and the company determines what, when and where you fly. Living in Dubai is also a must. They also wanted to point out that they flew 85 hrs a month, which I laughed at since that is the norm for a line holder here too.


There are many contracts all over the world that pay above 12K a month. A quick internet search shows you they are plentiful.


Point is, this is what our competition is paying their pilots. The total package is impressive and if DAL does not want to see a bunch of guys that are in the dead zone and junior start looking/taking these gigs, they will need to pay significantly more, have organic growth, and provide career progression that is more than just retirements.


I know a few guys that would look at this stuff if they were offered three to five year leaves. (Again, sadly since we should be the pinnacle of the career)

Originally Posted by Jack Bauer (Post 1134735)

PS- I know you will tell me 100 reasons why it wasn't possible but the Compass fleet should today be piloted by mainline Delta pilots. Our pinhead pilots representation flushed that one down the toilet leading to even more stagnation at this shrinking outsourced airline.

Jack Bauer would have seen this as a hostage situation and taken out the perpitrators within the first 5 minutes.

Originally Posted by tsquare (Post 1134726)

psssssst.. (you have to live in the anus of the earth)