How do you propose to get "factually correct" on this topic? The only people that know the definitve answer on who approached who are probably above your paygrade. If they're not, you probably shouldn't be on here.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter who approached who: both sides have something to gain, and something to give, or there would be no negotiations.

Where you're going wrong with this latest line of reasoning is that you're suggesting all this is occuring out of the kindness of the company's heart. It's illogical, and it's borderline defeatist. You present it as a sort of counter-point to people you say have unreasonable expectations. I don't like unreasonable anything, but I also think that we'll get nothing if we consider ourselves to be anything less than a valuable partner in this process.

Capt Steve Maher & the other ALPA Rep that briefed us in MSP about 3 weeks ago or so said otherwise, that the company approached ALPA to start negotiations early, in order to take advantage of current "opportunities" that disruption in the industry is providing.

Cuts
 

JFK-FCO seasonally stops in OCT as usual
ATL-MXP also gone this year though

Good post.

I'd rather see a pragmatic, early contract resolution that puts money in our pockets sooner, than going for the "Hail Mary" pass on 4th and really long.

If (and I have no idea) management is trying to link replacement aircraft to scope concessions (more 76 seat airframes) that's a non starter, even as part of a "package." Hopefully that has been communicated clearly so everyone understands ... so that four years from now the headlines don't read "Financially troubled Delta Air Lines alleges the Delta Pilots Association has organized an illegal job action..."

Well said Bar....Loud and Clear

As a previous poster stated, we've been told otherwise, so it's hard to tell what is really going on. But, regardless, they seem to want to deal also, instead of pushing it closer to the ammendable date. So.......... That must tell you something...... Don't let us down DALPA. Don't manage expectations, just hit a homerun. Do it.

Why? So you could witness the death of American space exploration? So you could tell your kids "I was there when we gave up"?

I'll pass. It was more depressing than anything else.

NASA's budget, even at it's peak, wasn't even a rounding error in the overall budget, yet employed tens of thousands of SKILLED Americans...scientists, engineers, machinists, plus thousands more in the ancillary industries. Plus we got really, REALLY cool stuff. THAT'S the way you waste taxpayers money.

How small we've become :(

Nu

Yeah we're chicken and egging this one a bit. My point is that getting the jets at mainline is great. That's the goal. But they were just given up, and for a reason. Simply keeping another pilot group in the MEC would have done nothing to change that, but even if it did and even if it resulted in a "staple" the company could still then go out and outsource 255 large RJ's, 153 of which are extra large RJ's. Ironically bringing the CPZ large RJ's to mainline could have ended up allowing even more large RJ's to be outsourced under the 3:1 check valve.

The problem/crime wasn't that CPZ pilots weren't put onto the mainline list but rather that the seat range that they fly off the list wasn't put on the list. In addition to that, operating them separately under a different contract as an outsourced airline really opened up DALPA/ALPA to a major DFR down the road. I'm all for bringing the flying back and putting it on our list. But we have to get the flying back first. Putting pilots on the list to do flying that's not covered in our scope does little and only inks the water even more than it already is.

Our follow on booster will be much more capable than the Shuttle (we never bought that much stuff down), if it gets funded. It will be a big sucker (graphic too big for here):

http://www.space.com/12957-nasa-gian...fographic.html

Donut strategy meetings all day. We aren't invited.